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re: "Serial" Podcast Discussion Thread...SPOILERS
Posted on 12/31/14 at 10:13 am to Kayhill Brown
Posted on 12/31/14 at 10:13 am to Kayhill Brown
part 2 of the jay interview
LINK
LINK
2
Posted on 12/31/14 at 10:50 am to CE Tiger
Wait...so now he's saying that he didnt know anything until Adnan showed up at his grandmothers house with the body? Thats about 100% different than anything he said in court.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 11:40 am to Hester Carries
quote:
Wait...so now he's saying that he didnt know anything until Adnan showed up at his grandmothers house with the body?
no, he's saying he doesn't know what happened with hae before that point - the details about how and where the murder was committed, body moved into the trunk, etc.
This post was edited on 12/31/14 at 11:40 am
Posted on 12/31/14 at 11:58 am to WaveHog
This whole story is just a mess. Between Jay who changes his story every telling and Adnan who refuses to say anything, both are more than likely at fault to some degree. I just hope that with the publicity the murder has gotten someone comes clean already with what really happened.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 12:40 pm to CE Tiger
These Jay interviews are pretty pointless. He hasn't given any real info, and I fail to see how Sarah Keonig demonized him more than she did anyone else in the story. All she did was cast doubts on parts of his story, just like she did just about everyone else involved.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 1:13 pm to hiltacular
Jay shows a real disconnect in some of his comments.
Does Jay really think that he would be just a blurb when revisiting a case that completely revolves around his testimony? His story—whether true or false— is the basis for all of the other evidence presented at trial.
He admits to not listening to the podcast, yet he feels he was demonized. Maybe he should listen to it then. Now may the redditors and bloggers have demonized him, but SK only presented information from the trial and police interview. Sure she questioned the inconsistent claims, but she could have easily pointed her finger at him, but she didn't.
Granted the case happened 15 years ago, and people change a lot from their early 20s to mid 30s, and maybe he truly feels for Hae's mother. That said, I find this quote to be so frustrating. Even if he couldn't have reasonably stop the murder from happening (i.e., Adnan told him beforehand but he didn't believe him), at the very least, he helped to cover-up a murder. He didn't seem to care about Hae's mother then. Then six weeks passed. That had to be excruciating for Hae's family, not knowing what had happened to her. He obviously didn't care enough then when he could have provided the answers that they needed. My belief is that if her body was never found, he would have kept quiet, not showing too much care for Hae's mother finding an answer.
So even if his story is true, he showed little regard for Hae's family because it benefited him, but now it benefits him to present as compassionate, to make an emotional appeal.
I understand that he is just responding to a question, but I get the feeling that calling it a radio show for This American Life (it originally started out that way; and a podcast is essentially digital radio) and a documentary (it was a documentary presented through a podcast) is his evidence that they were lying to him. I just find this ironic since he is getting caught up in minor semantic differences as evidence that SK was being deceitful and directly causing inconveniences in his life; yet, he doesn't seem to think that we should be very critical of his MAJOR inconsistencies—whether grounded in truth or not—that resulted in a person going to prison for life. It just seems that the truth is not important to him. It's only important when it benefits him; when it doesn't, then he either lies or creates a diversion from it.
If anybody in this case has shown sociopathic tendencies, it's Jay (e.g., deceitful, his hurtful behavior is always rationalized, criminal behavior, etc.). He flat out admits to lying to police to benefit himself, but rather than admitting it was wrong, he rationalizes it as necessary. Yet, he wants us to believe everything he says at this point.
quote:
I thought since I didn’t cooperate with her she would just make a little blurb about me in the story and then she would move on to whatever this ‘new evidence’ was or whatever Adnan had to tell her.
Does Jay really think that he would be just a blurb when revisiting a case that completely revolves around his testimony? His story—whether true or false— is the basis for all of the other evidence presented at trial.
quote:
I didn’t think I would be demonized
He admits to not listening to the podcast, yet he feels he was demonized. Maybe he should listen to it then. Now may the redditors and bloggers have demonized him, but SK only presented information from the trial and police interview. Sure she questioned the inconsistent claims, but she could have easily pointed her finger at him, but she didn't.
quote:
I told Sarah that the only one who deserves any type of closure from any of this is her mom.
Granted the case happened 15 years ago, and people change a lot from their early 20s to mid 30s, and maybe he truly feels for Hae's mother. That said, I find this quote to be so frustrating. Even if he couldn't have reasonably stop the murder from happening (i.e., Adnan told him beforehand but he didn't believe him), at the very least, he helped to cover-up a murder. He didn't seem to care about Hae's mother then. Then six weeks passed. That had to be excruciating for Hae's family, not knowing what had happened to her. He obviously didn't care enough then when he could have provided the answers that they needed. My belief is that if her body was never found, he would have kept quiet, not showing too much care for Hae's mother finding an answer.
So even if his story is true, he showed little regard for Hae's family because it benefited him, but now it benefits him to present as compassionate, to make an emotional appeal.
quote:
No. Not to my recollection. She kept saying ‘This American Life,’ ‘the radio,’ and ‘a documentary.’ There was no talk of ‘Serial’ or a podcast.
I understand that he is just responding to a question, but I get the feeling that calling it a radio show for This American Life (it originally started out that way; and a podcast is essentially digital radio) and a documentary (it was a documentary presented through a podcast) is his evidence that they were lying to him. I just find this ironic since he is getting caught up in minor semantic differences as evidence that SK was being deceitful and directly causing inconveniences in his life; yet, he doesn't seem to think that we should be very critical of his MAJOR inconsistencies—whether grounded in truth or not—that resulted in a person going to prison for life. It just seems that the truth is not important to him. It's only important when it benefits him; when it doesn't, then he either lies or creates a diversion from it.
If anybody in this case has shown sociopathic tendencies, it's Jay (e.g., deceitful, his hurtful behavior is always rationalized, criminal behavior, etc.). He flat out admits to lying to police to benefit himself, but rather than admitting it was wrong, he rationalizes it as necessary. Yet, he wants us to believe everything he says at this point.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 1:18 pm to The Spleen
quote:I respectfully disagree with this. If there was any doubt that he was an unreliable witness, that should have been erased after he changed major details yet again with this interview.
These Jay interviews are pretty pointless
quote:
All she did was cast doubts on parts of his story, just like she did just about everyone else involved.
Exactly. Besides experimenting with the feasibility of the cell phone records and timeline, all information was from the trial, police interviews, or new interviews with the parties (e.g., Asia, Adnan). The inconsistencies and implausibility in some of the details in Jay's story is the reason there is doubt. Sarah Koenig didn't have anything to do with him changing his story. It's almost as if he thinks we should only believe his most recent story, as if the truth is only what he has said most recently.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 1:36 pm to WaveHog
quote:
no, he's saying he doesn't know what happened with hae before that point - the details about how and where the murder was committed, body moved into the trunk, etc.
He testified that Adnan told him he was going to do it, did it, called him from best buy, showed him the body, and then they went to bury it.
Now he is saying that Adnan showed up at his G-mas house unannounced with the body of his ex-girlfriend.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 1:36 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
If there was any doubt that he was an unreliable witness, that should have been erased after he changed major details yet again with this interview
I guess, but I'm not sure there are that many people out there that found him all that reliable a witness to begin with.
This 2nd interview kind of pissed me off actually. He tries to paint Sarah and her producer as these shady folks that tried to strong arm him into participating in the story, but then you read the email she sent him and it tells a different story.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 1:43 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Maybe it's my biases coming through, but I've never been in a situation where I had to borrow or have borrowed a casual acquaintances vehicle (obviously emergencies are different). Maybe this was more common at that time or in Baltimore
Meant to address this, but it was very common when I was in high school for us to borrow each other's cars all the time. I'm 41, and grew up in a relatively small town. I didn't have a car at the time, but there were a handful of people I could go to at almost anytime and borrow their car if I needed to. Some were close friends, some were just casual acquaintances.
That said, one of the oddest things about this whole story is how both Jay and Adnan downplay their relationship.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 2:35 pm to Hester Carries
Jay is so full of shite.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 3:02 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I'm not sure there are that many people out there that found him all that reliable a witness to begin with
Except the jurors they interviewed who thought Jay was sincere.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 3:23 pm to The Spleen
And what was up with him invoking the "snitches get stitches" thing as pertaining to this trial in the present day? Certainly he doesn't actually fear that now.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 3:44 pm to BottomlandBrew
i find jay believable and think adnan is guilty. what's an alternative theory that makes any sense, given the facts?
Posted on 12/31/14 at 3:51 pm to WaveHog
quote:
what's an alternative theory that makes any sense, given the facts?
The lack of an alternate theory that makes sense is hardly proof of Adnan's guilt. Based on the facts I know of the case, I can't say with certainty who killed Hae. It may have been Adnan, but if it was, I don't think it was done the way the prosecution, nor Jay, say it was. It may have been Jay. It may have just been a random murder.
Based on how the show was presented, Jay and Jenn come off the least believable to me.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 3:57 pm to The Spleen
quote:actually, lack of an alternative theory when circumstantial evidence points to one person is pretty good proof. it was enough to get adnan convicted.
The lack of an alternate theory that makes sense is hardly proof of Adnan's guilt.
quote:
It may have just been a random murder.
except jay knew where hae's car was, so he was obviously involved.
quote:
It may have been Jay
and adnan was with jay when he said he was at the library, as evidenced by the nisha call.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 4:03 pm to WaveHog
quote:
actually, lack of an alternative theory when circumstantial evidence points to one person is pretty good proof. it was enough to get adnan convicted.
Well, there's circumstantial evidence that points to Jay and Jenn. Who are the only 2 people that admitted to handling the shovels used to bury the body?
The problem is the investigators for whatever reason decided to ignore a lot of other circumstantial evidence pointing to other possible suspects and only focus on the evidence that pointed to Adnan, and did so based on very shaky statements from Jay.
quote:
and adnan was with jay when he said he was at the library, as evidenced by the nisha call.
What about Aisha saying she saw Adnan in the library around the time the state said the murder occurred? And the Nisha call was very likely a butt dial. She said the only time she talked to Jay on the phone was when he Adnan called her from the porn shop, and Jay didn't have that job the day of the murder.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 4:08 pm to WaveHog
quote:
actually, lack of an alternative theory when circumstantial evidence points to one person is pretty good proof. it was enough to get adnan convicted.
What was the circumstantial evidence outside of Jay's incredibly non-linear testimony?
quote:
except jay knew where hae's car was, so he was obviously involved.
Some recent information from Adnan's 2003 denial of appeal has called that into question:
quote:
It is bizarrely unclear when Jay took the police to the location of Hae’s car. The court’s opinion notes (at 9) that “[Jay] eventually took the police to where the victim’s body was buried and to where the victim’s car was located,” but from context, it appears that this may have occurred after the April 13th interview. Jay testified at trial that on February 28th, during his first interview, “he lied to the police about the location of the victim’s car,” which would seem to be consistent with the opinion’s ambiguity as to when Jay lead the police to the car. We know, however, that evidence from Hae’s car was documented and itemized as of February 28th, which is consistent with Jay having shown the cops the location of her car immediately after his first interview. I am very curious to see if the trial transcripts clarify what is going on here.
Also this:
quote:
It is also extremely interesting to note that, based on the discussion of facts from the CoSA opinion, all of Jay’s initial statements to the police were far, far more self-incriminating than was his testimony at trial. It is hard to reconcile the claim that “Jay only lied to disguise the full extent of his participation” when all the evidence shows that his lies went in the complete opposite direction — because in order to believe that his testimony at trial was even a tiny bit accurate, you also have to believe that when Jay first spoke to the police, he lied and falsely claimed to be far more involved in Hae’s murder than he actually was.
LINK
quote:
and adnan was with jay when he said he was at the library, as evidenced by the nisha call.
Not if you buy the butt-dial theory. If you had one of those phones from back then, then it's extremely easy to accept the premise that someone (Jay) might have accidentally dialed Nisha.
Posted on 12/31/14 at 11:06 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
She said the only time she talked to Jay on the phone was when he Adnan called her from the porn shop, and Jay didn't have that job the day of the murder.
I've been confused about this. So, jay and Adnan are hanging out after the murder?I thought jay was afraid at this point. Just seems weird. Adnan goes to jay's work and is like "Jay wants to say hello, nisha"
Posted on 1/1/15 at 9:46 am to WaveHog
quote:
i find jay believable
Which version do you find believable? Or is it that you just think he "seems" believable when he tells each different version of his story?
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