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re: "Serial" Podcast Discussion Thread...SPOILERS
Posted on 1/2/15 at 2:49 pm to The Spleen
Posted on 1/2/15 at 2:49 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Regarding motive for Adnan, I just don't see it. The only person that has said Adnan was upset over the break up is Jay, a guy that said he and Adnan weren't even that close and only hung out a ahndful of times to smoke weed. Those closest to Adnan all said he took the break up fine and didn't exhibit any unusual behavior in response to it.
Could be, but the relationship is the only motive we're aware of in the case. While it is possible that the testimony was compelling in beating back the presumption of motive, any time a girl dies after breaking up with a guy, especially with everything else going on here, the motive box will be checked.
1
Posted on 1/2/15 at 2:50 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I'd say the circumstantial evidence that it was a butt-dial is very strong.
Would strongly disagree.
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:00 pm to Pettifogger
Adnan killed her. hard to believe otherwise
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:03 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
Would strongly disagree.
I think the only thing that we can strongly state, is that we have no idea what happened with that call, especially that Jay talked to Nisha.
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:03 pm to wish i was tebow
quote:
Adnan killed her. hard to believe otherwise
I'm not a criminal lawyer, just a lawyer. But in my experience looking at thousands of cases, civil or criminal, the liable or guilty party or thing tends to jump out at you.
You can get into the evidence and the minutiae and we should do so, but dissecting evidence 15 years after the crime should always be done with an asterisk.
All that said, my opinion that he killed her or was directly involved in her killing, and whether he should be convicted, are different things.
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:04 pm to wish i was tebow
just finished listening to it Wednesday. That was a very entertaining series. I have no idea if Adnan is guilty, but I do have a hard time believing I could convict him based on reasonable doubt. I also believe Jay has a bigger role than it appears.
I look forward to season 2
I look forward to season 2
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:05 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
I think the only thing that we can strongly state, is that we have no idea what happened with that call, especially that Jay talked to Nisha.
I won't say we have no idea. I do think it is an outstanding question, but the presumption, and a reasonable one for a 2 minute log, is that there was a live call made. Now, I think it's fair to say there was some doubt cast upon that, but I wouldn't call it even (50-50 live call vs. butt dial). I don't see any circumstantial evidence at all that it was a butt dial, rather it's a somewhat plausible theory with no supporting evidence. Hence, Sarah acting like the theories were on even footing annoyed me.
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:06 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
but the relationship is the only motive we're aware of in the case
Yeah because that's the one the investigators and prosecution went with. Only one person gave any testimony that supports that motive.
It goes back to what I said earlier. The investigators had an end game in mind, and tailored their investigation to that end. That doesn't mean Adnan didn't do it. He may have. I just don't think he did it the way they say he did.
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:09 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Yeah because that's the one the investigators and prosecution went with. Only one person gave any testimony that supports that motive.
Maybe, but I don't know that we have the full story on that. Koenig went at this from a "Did Adnan do this" perspective, not a "who killed her" perspective. The police may or may not have. I don't want to condone what was probably an investigation with some big holes, but we also don't know what was asked, to whom, and what other potential theories were kicked around or looked into.
Maybe you've read interview transcripts and such, I'm simply going on what the show provided us with. I don't know enough to say the police were too narrowly focused on Adnan.
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:17 pm to wish i was tebow
quote:
Adnan killed her. hard to believe otherwise
Why though? The evidence is surely not definitive. This is the problem with cases with only circumstantial evidence. There are probably any number of people that could look guilty if the evidence is built around a particular narrative.
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:18 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Why though? The evidence is surely not definitive. This is the problem with cases with only circumstantial evidence. There are probably any number of people that could look guilty if the evidence is built around a particular narrative.
I think your point is true in a general sense, but do you really believe you could put together a case against several other people in this matter that would be compelling?
I find it hard to believe.
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:34 pm to Pettifogger
The only 2 people involved in the case that you could probably build a case around are Jay and Don. Maybe that creepy Mr. S guy. Other than Adnan of course.
I think the theory floated somewhere that Jay and Jenn were hooking up behind Stephanie's back, and Hae finding out about it and threatening to tell Stephanie is a compelling angle. What was Jenn's motivation to help Jay get rid of the shovels used to bury the body?
I think the theory floated somewhere that Jay and Jenn were hooking up behind Stephanie's back, and Hae finding out about it and threatening to tell Stephanie is a compelling angle. What was Jenn's motivation to help Jay get rid of the shovels used to bury the body?
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:35 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I think your point is true in a general sense, but do you really believe you could put together a case against several other people in this matter that would be compelling?
I find it hard to believe.
Not in most cases. But in this case, we don't know where or when Hae went missing. We don't know where and when she was killed, and we don't have any physical evidence to implicate anybody. We don't have any evidence of any clear motive (aside from Jay's inconsistent testimony).
So if we have no verifiable evidence of any major details of the murder (where Hae went) then we can take relatively typical events and behaviors and frame it around unverified information.
This post was edited on 1/2/15 at 3:42 pm
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:40 pm to The Spleen
quote:
The only 2 people involved in the case that you could probably build a case around are Jay and Don. Maybe that creepy Mr. S guy. Other than Adnan of course.
I think the theory floated somewhere that Jay and Jenn were hooking up behind Stephanie's back, and Hae finding out about it and threatening to tell Stephanie is a compelling angle. What was Jenn's motivation to help Jay get rid of the shovels used to bury the body?
Jay, Adnan, and Don are most obvious from the evidence that we have. But see what don't know what other possibilities were never explored (the killer who was accidently released; some other student we know nothing about). Baltimore was/is dangerous. Who knows what else could have happened.
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:53 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I think the theory floated somewhere that Jay and Jenn were hooking up behind Stephanie's back, and Hae finding out about it and threatening to tell Stephanie is a compelling angle. What was Jenn's motivation to help Jay get rid of the shovels used to bury the body?
Obvious speculation, but assuming these things happened as told, my guesses would be 1) relationship with Jay and/or 2) proximity to a crime (she felt it was on her doorstep already and she wanted to make sure tracks were covered).
Posted on 1/2/15 at 3:59 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I'm not a criminal lawyer, just a lawyer. But in my experience looking at thousands of cases, civil or criminal, the liable or guilty party or thing tends to jump out at you.
You can get into the evidence and the minutiae and we should do so, but dissecting evidence 15 years after the crime should always be done with an asterisk.
All that said, my opinion that he killed her or was directly involved in her killing, and whether he should be convicted, are different things.
If i were a juror theres no way I could have said guilty. But I still think he did it
Posted on 1/2/15 at 4:29 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I do think it is an outstanding question, but the presumption, and a reasonable one for a 2 minute log, is that there was a live call made.
It might be reasonable, but I do not think it is supportable in the prosecution of a murder.
quote:
Now, I think it's fair to say there was some doubt cast upon that, but I wouldn't call it even (50-50 live call vs. butt dial).
I'd say it was much more likely a butt dial than not.
Posted on 1/2/15 at 4:31 pm to wish i was tebow
quote:Weeks later I'm still on the fence. Jay's information is so arse backwards that I don't know how he got away without anytime.
If i were a juror theres no way I could have said guilty. But I still think he did it
Posted on 1/2/15 at 4:32 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Not in most cases. But in this case, we don't know where or when Hae went missing. We don't know where and when she was killed, and we don't have any physical evidence to implicate anybody.
I think this has been way lost in the shuffle. For all we know, Hae could have been killed 2 weeks after being kidnapped. The ONLY link we have to a timeline that has her killed on Jan 13 is Jay...who has been inconsistent to the point of incoherence (not to mention the absurd sweetheart deal he got from the state).
There is no proof whatsoever that she was murdered on January 13. So how in the hell do you send a guy away for that crime when there is no physical evidence at all?
Posted on 1/2/15 at 8:21 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I'd say it was much more likely a butt dial than not.
To me this is wild speculation. There is zero evidence it was an accidental call.
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