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re: Okay....I have to admit my all time favorite movie has a serious plot hole...
Posted on 5/18/21 at 2:28 pm to WG_Dawg
Posted on 5/18/21 at 2:28 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:The medallion had writing on both sides of it - the front side had the warning about disturbing the Ark and begins to tell the height of the staff; the back side had the remaining description of the height of the staff. Belloq and his team only have the information from the front side - the side that was burned into Toht's hand when he tried to grab it out of the fire.
What I'm saying is would they have known how to use the medallion correctly? When indy finally makes it down into that map room thing he has to blow all tbe dust off it, meaning nobody has been in there for a while. Did the nazis know where the map room was? Ans even if they did, would they have known exactly how to use the medallion at the precise right time to pinpoint the right location?
The nazis having the medallion itself is irrelevant without knowing how to use it
The Germans had found the Map Room; When they first meet up, Sallah tells Indy that they found the map room 3 days ago. Belloq's team created a replica of the medallion using the burned image from Toht's hand and then used a staff that was too short to hold it in the map room. So they were digging in the wrong place. The dust Indy blows off is for dramatic effect and what would have blown back in through the hole.
0
Posted on 5/18/21 at 2:51 pm to alajones
quote:If memory serves, the plan was to fly it directly to Berlin, without Belloq getting to hold his “disgusting Jewish ritual” and opening it beforehand.
The original plan was to fly it out. Surely that had some impact on the ending.
So, without Indy, the Nazis find the Ark (having correctly interpreted its location from the medallion Toht “acquired” from Marion), put it on the Messerschmidt and fly it directly to der Fuhrer - where it is opened, and the wrath of Jahweh kills the entire German high command, and perhaps everyone in the country who sympathizes with them. All before even the annexation of the Sudetenland.
So, no Indy, no WWII. Unless you ascribe to the Suvorov theory that Stalin was planning for an eventual Soviet conquest of Europe...but that’s another alternate history, for another time
Posted on 5/18/21 at 3:00 pm to SquatchDawg
Most movies have serious plot holes if you look close enough.
There's a reason one of the ongoing bits in Screen Rant's Pitch Meeting is "I'm going to need you to get up off my back on that one" whenever the guy asks the writer about a massive plot hole.
There's a reason one of the ongoing bits in Screen Rant's Pitch Meeting is "I'm going to need you to get up off my back on that one" whenever the guy asks the writer about a massive plot hole.
Posted on 5/18/21 at 11:36 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Folks focused on the Nazi angle miss the story - the Nazis and the Ark are an excuse to get Indy and Marion back together. The rest is just window dressing
Essentially, the entire point of Raiders is to create the backstory and easter eggs for the Crystal Skull movie. Without Raiders, Crystall Skull would have been a poor sequel moneygrab.
The nazis and the ark were just window dressing for the prequel to crystal skull.
Posted on 5/19/21 at 12:21 am to PJinAtl
quote:
The bigger plot hole is that Indy really isn't that important to the story. If he never got involved, the same thing would have happened.
Complete rubbish
The original purpose of the Nazis in seeking the Ark was for its army to march behind it, and allow it to destroy anything in their path
Without Indys interference the Nazis accomplish that goal quite easily, and the Ark proved that it was capable of delivering that ultimate victory. However, Indy recovered the Ark, and its power was forever locked away by the US govt. So there is no way in hell that the a US govt would even exist, if Indy isnt involved
Posted on 5/19/21 at 8:00 am to meansonny
quote:
Crystal Skull
You got me. No clue what this is.
Posted on 5/19/21 at 8:13 am to FearlessFreep
quote:
Unless you ascribe to the Suvorov theory that Stalin was planning for an eventual Soviet conquest of Europe...but that’s another alternate history, for another time
I don't want to derail the thread, but broadly there is a lot of support for some variation on this theme. Stalin was in the process of purging the Red Army and remaking its leadership in his own image. He was also in the process of standing up 10 airborne divisions (useful only for offense), which would have been enough for a full airborne army or more. He was only partially through preparations of the military infrastructure and logistics support when Hitler beat him to the punch in 1941.
If Hitler had focused solely on the Western Front and not launched Barbarossa, Stalin would likely have struck in 1943 or 1944. Those airborne divisions had to be largely converted to guards (ground) infantry and essentially wasted that training/preparation outside of a few, smaller, disjointed airborne operations in the early stages of the war.
Posted on 5/19/21 at 8:23 am to SquatchDawg
I don't have it, but I believe there is a clip out there - unused in the movie - where Indy is grasping on to a pole that is just barely sticking out of the water. They probably didn't put it into the movie because it was a little too goofy.
This post was edited on 5/19/21 at 8:24 am
Posted on 5/19/21 at 6:32 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:why the hell not
I don't want to derail the thread
quote:This is pretty much Suvorov's view.
Stalin was in the process of purging the Red Army and remaking its leadership in his own image. He was also in the process of standing up 10 airborne divisions (useful only for offense), which would have been enough for a full airborne army or more. He was only partially through preparations of the military infrastructure and logistics support when Hitler beat him to the punch in 1941.
If Hitler had focused solely on the Western Front and not launched Barbarossa, Stalin would likely have struck in 1943 or 1944. Those airborne divisions had to be largely converted to guards (ground) infantry and essentially wasted that training/preparation outside of a few, smaller, disjointed airborne operations in the early stages of the war.
I'd hate to live in the alternate universes in which either Hitler or Stalin gained total control of Europe. We are most fortunate that things played out exactly as they did, with the Wermacht destroyed and the bulk of Red Army in tatters by VE Day.
Posted on 5/19/21 at 6:49 pm to PJinAtl
quote:
The whole point of the quest was getting the Ark before the Germans do, but that doesn't happen.
You clearly didn't pay attention to the movie. Yes, the whole point of the movie was to get the Ark before the Germans do. Yes, it doesn't happen. The Germans grab hold of it. But Indy also wants the Ark for himself because the government had promised him that his museum could keep the Ark once they had recovered it.
quote:
Indy: You did it, didn't you?!
Brody: He wants you to go for it!
Indy: Oh, Marcus!
Brody: He wants you to get a hold of the Ark before the Nazis do and they're prepared to pay handsomely for it.
Indy: And the museum? The museum gets the Ark when we're finished?!
Brody: Hell. Yes!
So...to summarize, Indy is going after the Ark of the Covenant for three reasons: 1) to get it before the Nazis do 2) for the money and 3) his museum gets the Ark of the Covenant once they get it.
Posted on 5/20/21 at 6:47 pm to RollTide1987
quote:Technically, Indy DOES get the Ark before the Nazis do. They just take it from him.
You clearly didn't pay attention to the movie. Yes, the whole point of the movie was to get the Ark before the Germans do. Yes, it doesn't happen. The Germans grab hold of it.
Posted on 5/20/21 at 10:59 pm to meansonny
quote:
Essentially, the entire point of Raiders is to create the backstory and easter eggs for the Crystal Skull movie. Without Raiders, Crystall Skull would have been a poor sequel moneygra
.....too shiny...
This post was edited on 5/20/21 at 11:01 pm
Posted on 5/22/21 at 1:57 am to SquatchDawg
Watching it right now, I simply look at the movie as a look into what was going on. It doesn't matter if he had an impact.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 7:12 am to PJinAtl
Indy basically handed the ark to the Germans, but then they opened it and all died. However, because Indy was there and did not die, the US government was able to retrieve the ark.
BBT was wrong.
BBT was wrong.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 7:42 am to SquatchDawg
Diesel U boats ran topside as long as there was no threat. Of course they kept the hatch open and had lookouts but that is another issue besides survival.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 9:41 am to SquatchDawg
I’ve never watched it. After reading this thread, it seems like I never should.
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