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re: Official Star Wars Episode 9 Discussion SPOILERS thread
Posted on 12/23/19 at 6:57 am to claremontrich
Posted on 12/23/19 at 6:57 am to claremontrich
quote:
my SW thread on the poli board.
This says more than I ever could about why these threads go off the rails.
0
Posted on 12/23/19 at 7:54 am to RyanMartin835
quote:
Sure plenty to nit pick in ROS but overall it brought warm feelings to my heart
Agreed
The one thing that could have been an easy fix imo would have been Rey and Ben defeating him together.
They kept talking about the diad being so important, it just seemed kind of lame to have her somehow overpower him because the Jedi spoke to her. I think the combination of the Skywalker and Palpatine bloodlines should have been the power that brought him down.
Plus, when he focused on himself saying I AM THE SITH, it would have been more meaningful for them to say WE ARE THE JEDI, proving that the good of the many outweigh the greed of the individual.
She still could have been the one to survive with Ben not being strong enough to survive it leaving her as the heroine, but I just think there needed to be more meaning in that final encounter.
Ben repeatedly said to her you will take my hand when I offer it again, that should have been the moment when they joined hands to finally vanquish the Sith, for good.
Loved the ending on Tatooine, though.
Does anyone else think this will all just repeat itself inevitably?
Assuming Rey continues the ways of the Jedi, she will have to train others, which means eventually someone will be seduced by the dark side, and round and round we go.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 8:04 am to Tiger Voodoo
Half in the Bag review is out!
LINK
I’m about halfway through watching. They’re pretty spot on with the complaints here although the idea of Palpatine being a clone was a surprise.
LINK
I’m about halfway through watching. They’re pretty spot on with the complaints here although the idea of Palpatine being a clone was a surprise.
This post was edited on 12/23/19 at 8:40 am
Posted on 12/23/19 at 8:12 am to meeple
Those guys suck
Posted on 12/23/19 at 8:30 am to TheeRealCarolina
I enjoyed the movie and think it did the best it could to recover after TLJ. Snoke should have been alive and the real threat to the galaxy.
Negatives: The Frankenstein emperor wasn’t really hashed out well. When put into perspective of a trilogy, it’s like the biggest plot line just got thrown in between TLJ and ROS with the emperor returning
Finn never says what he was gonna say to Rey
Lando seemed less cool and more cheesy
Still way too many parallels to the OT
Don’t like the emperor dying by his only lightning again. You’re gonna have trouble convincing me he hasn’t figured it out before the 3rd time he’s been mortally wounded or killed by his own lightning
Knights of Ren finally means something (3 movies later) but they still weren’t very relevant, just some dudes
Rey is overpowered IMO and doesn’t make sense how she loses to Kylo on the Death Star when so OP
Positives: Force ghost / Sith Zombie parallels are very interesting. The balance of the force implies the Sith would be able to do something similar to the Jedi force ghost, but in a more “possession” feel
Liked the Sith temple aspect
Concept of killing the Sith master to become the master is appropriate from the Bane novels and glad it was included
Really liked Luke saying “don’t disrespect the saber” on Rey throwing it. Big middle finger to Rian
Retconned Finn to make him cool immediately. First scene with him he jumps on the gunner and blasts a bunch of Tie fighters to bits
Retconned Ben/Kylo to make him seem a good villain for a bit and way more powerful
New force powers were cool
Diode concept was well played out
Thought the Ben/Han scene was touching tbh and felt real. Ben gets a second chance to make that decision and he makes the right choice. Really helps TFA feel relevant
All the scenes they went to were great. The backdrops were masterful. The Death Star seas were incredible. The Sith Temple was creepy AF. Fighting on the Star Destroyer was exactly how I imagined
Negatives: The Frankenstein emperor wasn’t really hashed out well. When put into perspective of a trilogy, it’s like the biggest plot line just got thrown in between TLJ and ROS with the emperor returning
Finn never says what he was gonna say to Rey
Lando seemed less cool and more cheesy
Still way too many parallels to the OT
Don’t like the emperor dying by his only lightning again. You’re gonna have trouble convincing me he hasn’t figured it out before the 3rd time he’s been mortally wounded or killed by his own lightning
Knights of Ren finally means something (3 movies later) but they still weren’t very relevant, just some dudes
Rey is overpowered IMO and doesn’t make sense how she loses to Kylo on the Death Star when so OP
Positives: Force ghost / Sith Zombie parallels are very interesting. The balance of the force implies the Sith would be able to do something similar to the Jedi force ghost, but in a more “possession” feel
Liked the Sith temple aspect
Concept of killing the Sith master to become the master is appropriate from the Bane novels and glad it was included
Really liked Luke saying “don’t disrespect the saber” on Rey throwing it. Big middle finger to Rian
Retconned Finn to make him cool immediately. First scene with him he jumps on the gunner and blasts a bunch of Tie fighters to bits
Retconned Ben/Kylo to make him seem a good villain for a bit and way more powerful
New force powers were cool
Diode concept was well played out
Thought the Ben/Han scene was touching tbh and felt real. Ben gets a second chance to make that decision and he makes the right choice. Really helps TFA feel relevant
All the scenes they went to were great. The backdrops were masterful. The Death Star seas were incredible. The Sith Temple was creepy AF. Fighting on the Star Destroyer was exactly how I imagined
This post was edited on 12/23/19 at 8:33 am
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:06 am to meeple
quote:
although the idea of Palpatine being a clone was a surprise.
That whole discussion really hammers home how absurd the plot is. It's really, really dumb but like they mentioned they basically had no choice but to bring him back so not entirely their fault.
Just don't tell me this is a good movie.
This post was edited on 12/23/19 at 9:07 am
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:11 am to Upperdecker
Great points.
They still shoudve made Finn try to kiss Rey or something. They didnt pay off that setup.
My main problem with ROS is it felt like a Michael Bay film and not his good ones.
It was just straight action, uptempo with no "lowpoints" i.e. dialogue driven parts or non action driven parts. The old trilogy had them, Avengers movies had them, all good movies have them but this movie just seemed like one action scene connected to the next.
It kinda burns out your senses I guess. Not a horrible film just not good.
They still shoudve made Finn try to kiss Rey or something. They didnt pay off that setup.
My main problem with ROS is it felt like a Michael Bay film and not his good ones.
It was just straight action, uptempo with no "lowpoints" i.e. dialogue driven parts or non action driven parts. The old trilogy had them, Avengers movies had them, all good movies have them but this movie just seemed like one action scene connected to the next.
It kinda burns out your senses I guess. Not a horrible film just not good.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:17 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Does anyone else think this will all just repeat itself inevitably?
Assuming Rey continues the ways of the Jedi, she will have to train others, which means eventually someone will be seduced by the dark side, and round and round we go.
I do. The entire premise of the force is there must be balance. Balance means light and dark. If only light, like you said, someone will be tempted by the power and shift to the dark. Setting it up this way keeps the universe alive and allows for a never ending stream of content in the future.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:18 am to stateofplay
quote:
is it felt like a Michael Bay film
Yeah. It's Into Darkness at it's best moments and Transformers at it's worst.
I get people *really* want to like this because it more or less cuts TLJ out of the equation, but that alone doesn't make something good. It's a hodgepog mess that's occasionally fun but mostly nonsensical.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:18 am to Draconian Sanctions
Saw it yesterday afternoon, and while it was entertaining, it just reminds me why I didn't hate TLJ as much as everyone else did. It felt like I was just watching a remake of the original trilogy. I was ok with it for TFA, but I wanted to see the franchise go off into a new direction and create it's own unique story after that. TLJ attempted to do that, but it was so full of plot holes and character development flaws that it didn't really accomplish anything. JJ was at least able to tell a more consistent and coherent story even if it was super cookie cutter. But it's the same bad guys, same threats, everyone gets a happy ending, etc. Just no risks taken at all.
So at this point I'm just not really sure how to feel. I think if JJ had done all 3 movies, the trilogy would have been better, but I really don't even know if I want that trilogy because it would have just been more of the same rehashed story.
Hopefully Mandolorian is a wake up call to Disney that original stories in the SW universe are what people want to see.
So at this point I'm just not really sure how to feel. I think if JJ had done all 3 movies, the trilogy would have been better, but I really don't even know if I want that trilogy because it would have just been more of the same rehashed story.
Hopefully Mandolorian is a wake up call to Disney that original stories in the SW universe are what people want to see.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:20 am to Cap Crunch
quote:
coherent story
lol what
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:21 am to Cap Crunch
quote:
Hopefully Mandolorian is a wake up call to Disney that original stories in the SW universe are what people want to see.
I hope with the success of the Mandalorian we see more TV shows then movies from Disney.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:23 am to TideWarrior
quote:
I hope with the success of the Mandalorian we see more TV shows then movies from Disney.
How about a Star Wars high school dramedy series set on Naboo in that Galactic Model UN that Padme mentioned she was in.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:27 am to Draconian Sanctions
I mean, as coherent as he could be stuffing 2 movies into one. Because that's basically what this was.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:29 am to Cap Crunch
Nothing relating to Palpatine or anything happening on Exegol makes any sense whatsoever.
I get they were in a tough spot bc of TLJ but good god
I get they were in a tough spot bc of TLJ but good god
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:16 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Nothing relating to Palpatine or anything happening on Exegol makes any sense whatsoever.
I get they were in a tough spot bc of TLJ but good god
They were in a tough spot, but they went ahead and put the out right into the movie, and didn't use it.
They went so far to show us that Snoke was a clone. Just have the one that Kylo killed be a clone and not the original. Palpatine wasn't needed for that. Would that be a cheap ploy to fix RJ's stupidity of killing him? Yes, but it would have been better than Palpatine somehow being alive.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:44 am to TheeRealCarolina
Went to see the movie yesterday, and have had some time to think about it. After reading through the thread, I will agree with some opinions, disagree with some, and probably get downvoted a shite-ton. But...
I liked it. Better than Solo or Last Jedi. Nowhere near as good as Rogue One. Thinking it wasn't as good as Force Awakens, but not sure on that yet.
A lot of fan service for sure. I loved seeing the A-Wings/B-Wings/Y-Wings. Also a lot of music cue callbacks with Binary Sunset, Leia's Theme, and I am pretty sure I heard TIE Fighter Attack from ANH when Finn was in the Falcon's gunner chair.
Still not sure about how I feel about the Rey/Palpatine bloodline. I know that was rumored as far back as TFA, becaue of how she held the lightsaber in a parry/thrust style like Palpatine did. Also, I guess it wouldn't be unheard of for him to have a family. Palps would have been in his early 50s when we first meet him in Phantom Menace. He could have had a son just before then who would have been in his early teens at the time of Revenge of the Sith, and late 20s at Return of the Jedi.
For all of her skill with a saber, Rey is as bad a shot with a blaster as a Stormtrooper.
Finn being Force sensitive was odd, but I could see it. All of the younglings we saw in the PT, not all of them were for Force bloodlines (that we know of) because Jedi were forbidden to marry. So new cadets had to come from somewhere.
I think my biggest issues are
Vader's turn and sacrifice at the end of ROTJ is pointless. He basically becomes Indiana Jones in Raiders. Take him out of the equation there and you still have the Emperor die at some point. The only thing Vader really did was save Luke, who could pass knowledge on to Leia and then Rey.
The fact that you are expected to learn things from other media for the movies to make sense. We learned in the Clone Wars/Rebels cartoons that Darth Maul survived, but if you didn't watch those, you wouldn't know that he was alive and would be baffled by his appearance in Solo.
If you don't know he survived, and how, you wonder how Palpatine did, but we learn from Maul that hate and power in the Dark Side can keep you alive even after being thrown down a deep pit and blasted to bits.
The same can be said for the creation of a First Order fleet and now Sith Fleet in the Unknown Regions. This is covered in the Wendig trilogy of books, but if you don't read them, it makes no sense.
I liked it. Better than Solo or Last Jedi. Nowhere near as good as Rogue One. Thinking it wasn't as good as Force Awakens, but not sure on that yet.
A lot of fan service for sure. I loved seeing the A-Wings/B-Wings/Y-Wings. Also a lot of music cue callbacks with Binary Sunset, Leia's Theme, and I am pretty sure I heard TIE Fighter Attack from ANH when Finn was in the Falcon's gunner chair.
Still not sure about how I feel about the Rey/Palpatine bloodline. I know that was rumored as far back as TFA, becaue of how she held the lightsaber in a parry/thrust style like Palpatine did. Also, I guess it wouldn't be unheard of for him to have a family. Palps would have been in his early 50s when we first meet him in Phantom Menace. He could have had a son just before then who would have been in his early teens at the time of Revenge of the Sith, and late 20s at Return of the Jedi.
For all of her skill with a saber, Rey is as bad a shot with a blaster as a Stormtrooper.
Finn being Force sensitive was odd, but I could see it. All of the younglings we saw in the PT, not all of them were for Force bloodlines (that we know of) because Jedi were forbidden to marry. So new cadets had to come from somewhere.
I think my biggest issues are
Vader's turn and sacrifice at the end of ROTJ is pointless. He basically becomes Indiana Jones in Raiders. Take him out of the equation there and you still have the Emperor die at some point. The only thing Vader really did was save Luke, who could pass knowledge on to Leia and then Rey.
The fact that you are expected to learn things from other media for the movies to make sense. We learned in the Clone Wars/Rebels cartoons that Darth Maul survived, but if you didn't watch those, you wouldn't know that he was alive and would be baffled by his appearance in Solo.
If you don't know he survived, and how, you wonder how Palpatine did, but we learn from Maul that hate and power in the Dark Side can keep you alive even after being thrown down a deep pit and blasted to bits.
The same can be said for the creation of a First Order fleet and now Sith Fleet in the Unknown Regions. This is covered in the Wendig trilogy of books, but if you don't read them, it makes no sense.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:47 am to PJinAtl
quote:
but we learn from Maul that hate and power in the Dark Side can keep you alive even after being thrown down a deep pit and blasted to bits.
Mind numbingly stupid
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:53 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Yes, but it would have been better than Palpatine somehow being alive.
Not really. Snoke just being another clone and then trying to explain that and who he was in one movie would've been too much. After the stupidity of Darth Maul, Palpatine is nothing.
Besides, Abrams was hell-bent on remaking the OT anyway.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 11:03 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:Sure it does. I think you do have to do a lot of the processing yourself, and try to connect the dots more than normal:
Nothing relating to Palpatine or anything happening on Exegol makes any sense whatsoever.
Palpatine is Sauron, and Exegol is his One Ring. Anakin never knew about it, so while he did indeed kill the Emperor in ROTJ, he didn't extinguish the source of his power (or his repository).
So Palpatine, who is AT LEAST as powerful in the Force as Yoda, would be able to Force Ghost as well. But rather than just offer advice (the Jedi way), his intent was to reclaim power.
First as the one who possesses the leader of the Galaxy- was going to possess Ben, then Rey. Once it determined that B+R= Force Dyad = more power, he did the math, figured there was enough juice to regenerate himself to living again and "come back as me" instead of possessing someone else.
the Force Heal thing, it seems to tie back to the Darth Plagius stuff. Generically a transfer of life force, that could be used to reverse death (as Palpatine told Anakin). Becomes a Dark Side thing to suck it out of others.
Makes total sense that Palpatine never taught Anakin/Vader this skill, as Star Wars would have been The Mummy instead.
And makes sense that when Palp killed Plagius, he couldn't revive himself
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