re: Obtuse Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice TD review thread (SPOILERS p5+)

I will call a slight bs because at the time Iron Man was not a safe bet. Iron Man was a B level hero with an actor on the downturn. Marvel was taking multiple risk with their early movies and they paid off because they were great movies.

But let's also not forget that Marvel did not force feed us future plot points like comic book movies do now. Marvel used mid and end credit scenes to set up future movies and reused elements from previous movies instead of shoehorning elements into movies to be used for future movies.

Marvel set their universe up and now that they already have a foundation they are using current movies to set up pieces for later. Granted I will say those parts of the movies have been frowned upon. No one liked Thor's visions in AoU. No one liked Falcon in Ant-Man.

It looks like it was based on this suit from Injustice:

There is also crisis on infinite earths, where one of the iconic moments is Flash appearing from the future to warn Batman.

I had no idea until I got home and read about it. Nobody in the theater had a clue what that was about

Well, after seeing this, I definitely think the critics are overreacting.

I didn't have any problems following things, it was less convoluted than Avengers: Age of Ultron.

Parts I GREATLY liked:
1) Affleck's Wayne/Batman, and Irons' Alfred. It's a different combo than we've seen on film before, with a younger Alfred and an older Wayne (relative to their previous roles). I absolutely loved the portrayals, they've definitely captured the Batman I've imagined. BTW while he's brutally violent, he doesn't kill as much as people claim. Dream sequences= not relevant, plus he's a resistance fighter for the planet at this point. Hand-to-hand combat- he stabs the guy through the shoulder, he sprays the gunfire over people's heads to make them duck and disperse. Car stuff- well, maybe the criminal's cars have great airbags ; no getting around the batplane stuff. But he's "doing the only thing that matters in his life", trying to save the world. If he's gonna kill Superman to do this, he will kill Russian mafia henchmen with guns in the way. He kills the guy with the flamethrower because there's absolutely no other way, and this time he won't let "Martha" die.
The Batman scenes alone were worth the price of admission.

2) Wonder Woman- there were lots of fear that Gadot would not be able to carry this off. Wrong; again, she is a highlight. The cat-and-mouse between Wayne and Ms Prince was pretty good, I enjoyed the chemistry between the actors. And then when she steps into full WW mode, they really do the character justice. Wonder Woman as a hero can hold her own with Superman, and this definitely comes across.
I'm now looking forward to the WW movie.

Basically, this is one of, maybe THE best Batman movie yet (and note that Batman's name is first), and it has a great introduction to Diana Prince/Wonder Woman. It almost feels like they shoehorned Superman in.

Superman is a tough issue, and one Marvel doesn't have to face. Thor's almost as powerful, but he's off on Asgard a lot of the time, plus he's also a lot more hands-off. He addresses threats to "the realm", while Superman is trying to help out as much as he possibly can (i.e. the people in the South American fire). As shown in the film, Batman's actions would be noticed by Superman, so you need to address this somehow. That's what this film did- it showed how a person (Luthor) could manipulate the situation to negate Superman's physical prowess; and it gave a threat (Doomsday) that he alone could not defeat.

It gave us the premise going forward that we have room for other heroes in this world. It also showed how these characters could balance out the others; they are all alone initially, other than Wayne having Alfred. Batman's comment "I'm a friend of your son's", and the response "yeah, I can kinda tell, the cape and all"... it made sense to me. They all have different power/skills, but they each are isolated in society; and they are now meeting others that they can understand and that can understand them. Building a DC world, this might have been the toughest part to make, and the following movies should flow better.

Can Doomsday fly?

No, he can just jump really high.

Mine didn't have either of those previews.

Alamo Drafthouse - Civil War and Lego Batman

IMAX - Civil War and Suicide Squad

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This movie was so bad I walked out in the middle of it. The only other movie I did this was Vin Disel in that witch hunter movie which was horrible.

I HATED IT

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It sounds like you went in wanting to hate it, rather than let things play out. This is setting up MULTIPLE future movies, and it looks to have hit the box office to ensure those movies will be made. For that alone, you should want to finish this film, and learn the various setups.

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-magic US bullet technology in the desert

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Ties in a lot of threads. Shows that Luthor is already plotting to set Superman up for a fall in public opinion, and that he's aware of the relationship with Lois and is willing to use it. Also shows that his company is developing weapons for the US government.

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-confusing batman dreams
-long boring tangents that mean and add nothing to the story

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Some are haunted dreams of what created "Batman", others seem like visions or premonitions.
Seems like Wayne and apparently Luthor both have these visions. Luthor's statements of demons coming from the heavens, and his motivation to kill Superman, correspond with Batman's dreams of the future. It's like they are both having these dreams, like someone is sending a message somehow. Who in the DC Universe could do this?

Luthor sees no way other than killing Superman (first, and then probably WW and the rest) to stop this threat, Batman eventually decides the formation of the JLA is the answer. Luthor distrusts the meta-humans, while Wayne finally decides that, like Superman, they would fight FOR their world, instead of against it.

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-batman/superman are extremely EMO

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They see no point to their actions. Batman says criminals are like weeds, you pluck one and another springs up. He also says to Alfred something about how they've known others with good intentions, that ultimately turned bad (Two-Face? Robin/Red Hood?).
Superman can't buy a break; he saves the planet and his girlfriend, and has to answer before a congressional hearing for it. There are parts of society and government that are actively trying to figure ways to kill him (if need be), and protesting his existence. He just wants to make dinner for Lois and do the "right thing", when he can.

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Lex Luthor is a a Zac Uckerberg type nerd

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Weird twist, but it keeps him off everyone's radar. Nobody takes him seriously.
Also- like Wayne, it shows he's a little unstable. Maybe this instability is what makes them both receptive to the visions of evil future Superman and the arrival of Darkseid?

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Wheelchair guy wtf?

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Totally plausible, a guy who is embittered by Superman due to his losses, and someone able to be manipulated by Luthor for the suicide bomb.

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The car chase scene was terrible. GOOFY

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Batman in action, shows off the Batmobile and his gear. No goofier than Iron Man with his suit, IMO.

The biggest points that aren't really easily answered are the dreams, and those may well be important Easter Eggs for the upcoming films. We are, after all, going to get additional movies. If those visions are tied in, we then come back and say they are smart devices.