re: Obtuse Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice TD review thread (SPOILERS p5+)

Man, does this guy get it:

NOBODY CARES THAT YOU HATE ‘BATMAN V SUPERMAN’

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I think we can all agree that nobody involved with BvS was actively trying to piss you off. Not only were they trying to make a good movie, they had the daunting task of setting up an entire network of other movies down the line. Whether or not that’s a good thing is a separate argument but it’s the new reality of big-budget franchise filmmaking. But they all wanted you to like this movie. If you run into Ben Affleck in a checkout line and explain to him all the ways his movie made no sense, he’d probably feel bad and apologize for wasting your time. But let’s face it. You’re not going to (and even if you did, you’d be acting like a bit of a douche).

No, the only reaction that really counts here is your money in Warner Bros.’ coffers. No matter how loudly you complain or how many social media accounts you use to express your displeasure with the movie, that money is what tells the studio that they’re on the right track. The only shot any of us had at throwing a monkey wrench into Snyder’s plans for a dark ‘n’ gritty DC Universe was not showing up this weekend and we blew it big time. And no one can accuse the WB of mismarketing the movie. If you saw MAN OF STEEL or any of the trailers or promo materials, you knew exactly what you were getting into. If this wasn’t the Superman movie you wanted, you should have stayed home.

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Getting back to the Right v Wrong arguments, there seems to be a consensus that the Marvel method of constructing an extended cinematic universe is right, while whatever DC is doing is wrong. Well, no. Marvel’s plan was methodical, ambitious and ultimately successful but not without its missteps. They started with IRON MAN and THE INCREDIBLE HULK, two properties that seemed like pretty safe bets considering what they had to work with at the time. They included just enough threads to tie things together if the plan worked but if they didn’t, it wouldn’t necessarily sink the entire enterprise. IRON MAN worked like gangbusters. THE HULK, not so much. When audiences didn’t respond as well to that movie as Marvel had hoped, the powers that be said, “OK, we’re not going to necessarily ignore the events of this movie but creatively, we’ll just wipe the decks clean. Next time we need the Hulk, we’ll try something else.”

DC’s attempt is a bit riskier. It doesn’t really matter if you liked Wonder Woman, The Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg in BvS ‘cause you’re getting movies about ‘em anyway. There are absolutely elements of BvS that currently make exactly zero sense because they’re just there to set up JUSTICE LEAGUE. But guess what? That’s the world you created. Every time you obsessively pore over all the links and Easter eggs in the Marvel movies and TV shows, you’re helping to transform cinematic storytelling into something closer to longform television storytelling. And something tells me it’s only going to get worse.

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Exactly.

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DC’s attempt is a bit riskier. It doesn’t really matter if you liked Wonder Woman, The Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg in BvS ‘cause you’re getting movies about ‘em anyway. There are absolutely elements of BvS that currently make exactly zero sense because they’re just there to set up JUSTICE LEAGUE. But guess what? That’s the world you created. Every time you obsessively pore over all the links and Easter eggs in the Marvel movies and TV shows, you’re helping to transform cinematic storytelling into something closer to longform television storytelling. And something tells me it’s only going to get worse.

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So it's all Marvel's fault that BvS made little sense? That's rich.

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No, the only reaction that really counts here is your money in Warner Bros.’ coffers. No matter how loudly you complain or how many social media accounts you use to express your displeasure with the movie, that money is what tells the studio that they’re on the right track. The only shot any of us had at throwing a monkey wrench into Snyder’s plans for a dark ‘n’ gritty DC Universe was not showing up this weekend and we blew it big time. And no one can accuse the WB of mismarketing the movie. If you saw MAN OF STEEL or any of the trailers or promo materials, you knew exactly what you were getting into. If this wasn’t the Superman movie you wanted, you should have stayed home.

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However, he is right here. That's why it was always going to make a billion.

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Getting back to the Right v Wrong arguments, there seems to be a consensus that the Marvel method of constructing an extended cinematic universe is right, while whatever DC is doing is wrong. Well, no. Marvel’s plan was methodical, ambitious and ultimately successful but not without its missteps. They started with IRON MAN and THE INCREDIBLE HULK, two properties that seemed like pretty safe bets considering what they had to work with at the time. They included just enough threads to tie things together if the plan worked but if they didn’t, it wouldn’t necessarily sink the entire enterprise. IRON MAN worked like gangbusters. THE HULK, not so much. When audiences didn’t respond as well to that movie as Marvel had hoped, the powers that be said, “OK, we’re not going to necessarily ignore the events of this movie but creatively, we’ll just wipe the decks clean. Next time we need the Hulk, we’ll try something else.”

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Well, I'm not one to say that one way is better, that stinks. However, the conclusion is that DC has put out two divisive films that aren't even very good, while Marvel puts out a string of at the bare minimum, enjoyable movies that work as a whole. They both have missteps, but DC's have been massive in comparison. Even the one quoted here was eventually rectified.

I mean, evidence points one way, not the other as of right now, I don't know how you can say otherwise.

And I think the success has less to do with the overall structure and more to do with the top-down management. It rubs some people the wrong way and creates a series of films that have very similar beats, but it has worked more successfully. Simple as that.

That was a really good read. Thanks for posting it.

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You would read the label to a carton of milk and remark that they're claiming it to be coffee.

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Dude, he literally says this:

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But guess what? That’s the world you created. Every time you obsessively pore over all the links and Easter eggs in the Marvel movies and TV shows, you’re helping to transform cinematic storytelling into something closer to longform television storytelling. And something tells me it’s only going to get worse.

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He mentions nothing else but Marvel.

And there you go again, making some remark about a poster rather than content. He doesn't blame anything else but the need to pour over Easter Egg is Marvel content.

And his support:

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Remind me again why Thor had to go swimming in that mystic pool in AGE OF ULTRON.

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Everyone mentioned the superfluous scenes in AoU, particularly this one. No one ignored it.

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He's putting the blame on "you", not Marvel. He couldn't have written it any clearer. Yet you saw, "So it's all Marvel's fault that BvS made little sense?"

Take a minute and read these things through before you twist them to your own agenda.

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Not the way I read it.

Maybe he could have said: "The way you pour over Easter Egg content in JJ Abrams properties like Lost, HBO's Game of Thrones, and some Marvel films, the way that storytelling has become a cat and mouse game of how can we surprise you but give you secrets on what's coming is ruining storytelling and forcing DCU to adapt the same experience.

But he doesn't. He specifically lays the blame on people enjoying Marvel movies. People can't pour over Easter Eggs without Marvel putting them there. Of course he's blaming people, but people don't create Easter Eggs. He's blaming Marvel in effect.

If he wasn't so specific, it wouldn't be a problem. He blames Marvel, not general people and how they look for easter eggs in any story now.

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Not the way I read it.

Maybe he could have said: "The way you pour over Easter Egg content in JJ Abrams properties like Lost, HBO's Game of Thrones, and some Marvel films, the way that storytelling has become a cat and mouse game of how can we surprise you but give you secrets on what's coming is ruining storytelling and forcing DCU to adapt the same experience.

But he doesn't. He specifically lays the blame on people enjoying Marvel movies. People can't pour over Easter Eggs without Marvel putting them there. Of course he's blaming people, but people don't create Easter Eggs. He's blaming Marvel in effect.

If he wasn't so specific, it wouldn't be a problem. He blames Marvel, not general people and how they look for easter eggs in any story now.

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He's saying that it's a part of Marvel movies that fans are fixating on and that's why we're seeing more of it and will continue to see more. Not that Marvel is in the wrong for doing it, but that we are rewarding them for it and that it makes sense that DC would follow suit.

He couldn't make it any plainer that he's putting the blame on the fans, not Marvel.

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I didn't know what I was watching when the Flash came back in time.

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Hold up. That was Flash? I had no idea who the frick that was.

That scene made no sense.

The Flashpoint Paradox. It was a stupid scene with no context if you aren't familiar with the story. I'd guess less than 10% of the audience in my theater knew what they were seeing.