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Message
re: New Netflix docu-series "Making a Murderer" (Spoilers)
Posted on 1/11/16 at 10:31 am to John McClane
Posted on 1/11/16 at 10:31 am to John McClane
quote:
How could these two dimwits scrub the trailer and garage of all blood and DNA evidence?
It's possible--even likely, imo--that Dassey was innocent, the police planted evidence, and Avery still was the murderer. My guess is he killed her somewhere outside his house.
That said, the police mishandling of this case far exceeds the standard for reasonable doubt.
0
Posted on 1/11/16 at 10:41 am to abellsujr
quote:
Actually there were also a lot of things that were not mentioned in the doc that make Avery look bad. Not all necessarily direct evidence to this murder, but he was a sick, fricked up dude.
I thought the most damning thing against Avery that was shown in the doc were his letters to his ex-wife from prison. I think Avery says he was in a "dark place" when writing them, but his words in those letters were very disturbing, and did not make him look like a good person.
While watching the documentary, I had to keep reminding myself of those letters. I believe that if the filmmakers were truly slanted, they probably wouldn't have shown them, or included them in the clips from the trial where the prosecutors bring them up. Any of the other evidence that was not included in the documentary wasn't as bad as that IMO.
Like others, however, I don't think the point of this doc was to make Avery look innocent - it was to point out the major flaws in our justice system and what corruption within law enforcement can lead to.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 12:04 pm to STLhog
quote:
t's very surprising that more people here are taking everything at face value and believe him to be innocent.
Umm not its not.
As an American we are supposed to presume innocence until guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt.
All of those assuming he's guilty are basically communist/fascists.
you clearly didnt understand what i said. My point is that all of our information is from a 10 hour documentary that is spun in avery's favor. They select what information is presented, and the manner in which its presented.
For you to say that anyone assuming he is guilty is a communist is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on TD(and thats saying a lot).
This is similar to the Kony video.... when it came out everyone's initial reaction was outrage because they took everything at face value without doing their own research.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 12:10 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
But, I can't pretend this documentary, solely from the perspective of Avery, his family supporters and attorneys, gives a full reading to the state's evidence.
this.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 12:13 pm to 632627
Didn't his wife write she was going to kill their children?
I mean the dude isn't bright. I can see him writing that out of anger. Does not mean he killed Teresa
I mean the dude isn't bright. I can see him writing that out of anger. Does not mean he killed Teresa
This post was edited on 1/11/16 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 1/11/16 at 12:15 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I can't pretend this documentary, solely from the perspective of Avery, his family supporters and attorneys, gives a full reading to the state's evidence.
It wasn't "solely" from Avery's perspective, albeit skewed. But the prosecution has had every opportunity to present the items of evidence left out of the documentary, to which they've actually availed themselves, but none of it is compelling.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 12:15 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
solely from the perspective of Avery,
What does that mean? How is it "solely from the perspective of Avery"?
Posted on 1/11/16 at 12:42 pm to STLhog
quote:
There were people saying how smart they thought Katz was?
That dude seemed like a bumbling arrogant fool. frick that guy.
Such a punchable face.
I love how at the end of the Avery trial he tells the jury something like "there is only one man and one man only who committed this murder... Steven Avery" and then proceeds to try Dassey for the same murder.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 12:47 pm to 632627
quote:I don't see how this documentary was spun in Avery's favor. To me it made me see how corrupt law enforcement can be and made me wonder how many people are in jail on shoddy cases like the state of Wisconsin's against Avery.
My point is that all of our information is from a 10 hour documentary that is spun in avery's favor
I think Avery is a likely suspect in Teresa Halbech's murder, but not how the state said he was. How he is convicted is the real crime here.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 2:09 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
I don't see how this documentary was spun in Avery's favor. To me it made me see how corrupt law enforcement can be and made me wonder how many people are in jail on shoddy cases like the state of Wisconsin's against Avery.
I think Avery is a likely suspect in Teresa Halbech's murder, but not how the state said he was. How he is convicted is the real crime here.
Winner.
If anything, this doc is more anti-law enforcement than it is pro-Avery.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 2:36 pm to Freauxzen
I think the simplest explanations are most plausible. I believe Avery did it. If you don't then there are about five to six events somebody had to plan to frame him requiring collaboration and sophistication I don't believe is possible or likely. To believe they just happened to have a bonfire at the time where human remains are eventually found and they weren't aware they were in there is a bridge to far for reasonable explanation.
This post was edited on 1/11/16 at 2:37 pm
Posted on 1/11/16 at 2:56 pm to CrimsonFever
I don't think Mike Halbach killed his sister.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 2:57 pm to Freauxzen
For me the ends do justify the means in this case, but I understand what you're saying. Police can't taint with evidence no matter how much we believe that someone is "Evil incarnate". The justice system is set up in a way to give everyone a fair chance. I just can't say with a straight face that he should be out of jail because some evidence was planted. I believe firmly that this man is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS and would hurt or kill someone again. I mean, I believe this guy is a child molester and a sexual predator. You may not believe that. Other people may not as well. That's their right.
In the end, I just cannot and will not say that I think this guy should be freed. And I hope he's not.
In the end, I just cannot and will not say that I think this guy should be freed. And I hope he's not.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 2:57 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
To believe they just happened to have a bonfire at the time where human remains are eventually found and they weren't aware they were in there is a bridge to far for reasonable explanation.
It was Halloween, right? Why have a bonfire and invite others to it if you were burning a body?
Either way, it definitely didn't go down the way Brendan "confessed" to.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 2:58 pm to Blue Velvet
quote:
I don't think Mike Halbach killed his sister.
Yeah. I don't get the hate for Mike Halbach. Sure he was a little smug about everything, but he pretty much had to believe that the story the prosecution was putting was the truth. He had no other options.
Were the parents ever involved? It does seem kinda odd that he was always doing interviews. Maybe the show just didn't show the parent interviews.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 3:02 pm to Salmon
He had a fire pit. I'm sure a bonfire, or as Brendon would call it "bomb fire"' wasn't something out of the ordinary for Steven to do.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 3:03 pm to Rou Leed
quote:This is the problem with these types investigations. They quickly zero in on a certain suspect and it becomes a case study on confirmation bias. Then we it gets trial, it's of course the simplest explanation because all other information was disregard or never pursued.
I think the simplest explanations are most plausible. I believe Avery did it.
quote:And this is a prime example of the confirmation bias. An otherwise common and innocuous event becomes some smoking-gun of something rare and nefarious. It MAY be evidence, but too often I think, even when a person is guilty, events that have nothing to do with the guilt, are now somehow a major piece of evidence.
To believe they just happened to have a bonfire at the time where human remains are eventually found and they weren't aware they were in there is a bridge to far for reasonable explanation.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 3:08 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
quote:
I think the simplest explanations are most plausible. I believe Avery did it.
This is the problem with these types investigations. They quickly zero in on a certain suspect and it becomes a case study on confirmation bias. Then we it gets trial, it's of course the simplest explanation because all other information was disregard or never pursued.
Yep. Why are they so convinced it was Avery when it could have been one of the 5 or so other able-bodied Avery males who also lived on the property? Why is a different Avery male some not "simple" enough of an explanation?
Posted on 1/11/16 at 3:23 pm to buckeye_vol
The explanation of how the remains burned elsewhere and planted via barrel is not believable. Add that with the fact pieces are found in different spots all within about 100 ft of houses. Nobody planted all the different pieces that close to the houses in the different spot. Add with blood, car, bullet, key evidence. Too much linked evidence telling a bad story. Include confession and confession to related girl. Too much smoke. It is much more likely they got it right.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 3:23 pm to Salmon
quote:quote:
I don't think Mike Halbach killed his sister.
Yeah. I don't get the hate for Mike Halbach. Sure he was a little smug about everything, but he pretty much had to believe that the story the prosecution was putting was the truth. He had no other options.
Were the parents ever involved? It does seem kinda odd that he was always doing interviews. Maybe the show just didn't show the parent interviews.
The smugness and assurances of everything. Granted, it's hard to know how one would react in such a situation, but still.
But add that to 1) The parents, or lack of any other Halbach information 2) Mentioning grieving for Teresa during the search....before a body is found and she is confirmed dead 3) Hillegas guessing the passowrd for Teresa's voicemail which happened to be the birthdays of her sisters 3) Tereas having what appears to have an ex-boyfriend and a non-boyfriend roommate involved. Hillegas and Halbach seemed chummy enough.
I'm not saying he did it, but it's just weird.
On that note, isn't it strange when one case just gets hit with a lot of things that can be circumstantial, but also looking incredibly convenient all at the same time?
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