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Message
re: LOST "Across the Sea" S6.E15 (Jacob/MIB Centric)
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:35 am to CocomoLSU
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:35 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
I don't understand why that's not good enough. It was a way for them to address it without having to hand-feed answers to the audience.
Lost fanatics are hilarious. One day they're bitching because nothing was answered. The next is because what was answered wasn't good enough. Or because it doesnt fit into "reality."
Like people bitching about them being able to build something to harness the island's light/energy. MIB saying that he was with some VERY smart people, and that they built something to harness it was easily good enough for me. If they would have spent 10 minutes trying to show us exactly what device/structure was built to harness that energy, it would have been unnecessary, and half the people here would have complained that it wasn't logical or possible or good enough. We're watching a show where an island can jump through time, people can time travel and jump beetween alternate UNIVERSES, dead people can come back to life, some guy can turn into a fricking smoke monster that sounds like it's mechanical, a pool of water heals all wounds/illnesses, one touch from a man can make people not die, etc...and you people are complaining that something is farfetched? Give me a fricking break.
THANK YOU!!
this has been a show where everything about it has been illogical and now at the end, everyone expects logical explanations for everything
1
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:36 am to The Godfather
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:36 am to Tiger Ryno
quote:
What is most disturbing is we still don't really understand the motivation of the characters. Other than MIB just wants to leave the island because he feels he doesn't belong, we have no clue what really motivated Jacob and Mother. The explanation of just protecting the light at all costs is weak, since the means by which she protected it were extremely questionable (murder, kidnapping, lying). And Jacob's character was just written into a black hole of suck in this episode.
quote:
I have no problems with the explanation of the wheel or the nebulous explanation of light. I have major problems with the way the characters were written and the horrendous performances by Janney and Pelligrino in this episode.
You've gotten a lot better from the beginning of this season Ryno. Bravo
This post was edited on 5/12/10 at 11:38 am
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:39 am to Tiger Ryno
Let me bring up another point... which is actually the same as my other point
If for 6 years we watched MIB ( lets call him Josh) live life on the island. He did bad things and he did good things but most of the time his good outweighed his bad. (like all the characters we have come to love except for a few). All Josh ever wanted to do was find a way to explore the rest of the world.
Lets say in the final season of Josh's story a group of 6 people decided to threaten Josh's attempt to leave the island. (lets call these people Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Jin, Sun, and Hurley)
For 6 years you have become emotionally attached to Josh (MIB).
These people who are threatening his chances of leaving the island start to piss you off because they seem bad.... Then one day we find out that these six people had lives and families and actually didn't seem too bad... except for one thing... they are fricking with Josh (MIB).... You are much more attached to Josh than you are these other strange 6.
So naturally you decide that these 6 are bad people.
This is what I feel the Writers may be trying to say... In this world, there is a lot of grey but not a lot of black and white. Somehting can be seen as bad in one light. (Say from the Losties vantage point) or something can be seen as good in a totally different light. (say from MIB's vantage point)
I think its a study in human interaction and how no matter what someone always loses even if neither side is really evil.
The only way both sides can win is if the candidates and MIB both get to leave the island... But that wont happen...
If for 6 years we watched MIB ( lets call him Josh) live life on the island. He did bad things and he did good things but most of the time his good outweighed his bad. (like all the characters we have come to love except for a few). All Josh ever wanted to do was find a way to explore the rest of the world.
Lets say in the final season of Josh's story a group of 6 people decided to threaten Josh's attempt to leave the island. (lets call these people Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Jin, Sun, and Hurley)
For 6 years you have become emotionally attached to Josh (MIB).
These people who are threatening his chances of leaving the island start to piss you off because they seem bad.... Then one day we find out that these six people had lives and families and actually didn't seem too bad... except for one thing... they are fricking with Josh (MIB).... You are much more attached to Josh than you are these other strange 6.
So naturally you decide that these 6 are bad people.
This is what I feel the Writers may be trying to say... In this world, there is a lot of grey but not a lot of black and white. Somehting can be seen as bad in one light. (Say from the Losties vantage point) or something can be seen as good in a totally different light. (say from MIB's vantage point)
I think its a study in human interaction and how no matter what someone always loses even if neither side is really evil.
The only way both sides can win is if the candidates and MIB both get to leave the island... But that wont happen...
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:39 am to The Eric
quote:
I liked it, except for the fact I still don't know why MIB is the bad guy.
You mean other than the fact that he lies, manipulates, wipes out scores of people at will, and slips jack and all his buddies a bomb?
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:43 am to The Godfather
quote:
SPOILER...here is a sneak peek to next weeks episode
hrmmmm....gives me some slight hope that we'll get a more satisfactory explanation of the Jacob/MiB backstory in the last 3.5 hours....but who knows.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:44 am to lsumatt
quote:
You mean other than the fact that he lies, manipulates, wipes out scores of people at will, and slips jack and all his buddies a bomb?
Sawyer has killed people, So has Sayid, Kate... Jin and Sun weren't perfect.
Jack is far from perfect.
Hurley is the only person that hasn't really done anything bad.
Guy just wants to leave the island....
If you went on a vacation and stayed in a hotel and the day you were set to go home i stood in your hotel door room and wouldn't let you leave. You tried to push me but you couldn't get by me... I bet you would start thinking about ways you could either manipulate me to get out of your way or hurt me.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:44 am to lsumatt
quote:
You mean other than the fact that he lies, manipulates, wipes out scores of people at will, and slips jack and all his buddies a bomb?
All because he was manipulated by his "mother" into being thrown into some ball of light by his brother. For simply wanting to leave the Island. Remember.. Jacob brought them to the Island knowing full well that most if not all would die.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:45 am to TROLA
thank you trola
everyone in this show except for Hurley has either killed, lied, cheated or stolen....
everyone in this show except for Hurley has either killed, lied, cheated or stolen....
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:46 am to The Eric
quote:
If you went on a vacation and stayed in a hotel and the day you were set to go home i stood in your hotel door room and wouldn't let you leave. You tried to push me but you couldn't get by me... I bet you would start thinking about ways you could either manipulate me to get out of your way or hurt me.
Exactly. MIB was made to be a sympathetic character. moreso than Jacob.
They need to go back to literature 101 and re read the section on antagonists
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:50 am to TDTGodfather
quote:
as much as people are bitching about this season (which is retarded because this season has given us some of the BEST episodes) and last nights episode (which i also believe fell short on SOME answers) you are all missing the truth and tragedy of it all (TRUE LOST fans). LOST is almost over! Its like a close friend or relative dieing and you know the exact day! There telling you the stories of their life and all your doing is complaining on what the should have done diff or what they left out. The fact is LOST will be gone soon and instead of bitching until the end hold its hand and cherish the moments we have left! I've never loved a show this much. Entourage is good and so was Sopranos but THIS SHOW is the best show I've ever seen and I'm grateful for all the time its given me (good or bad). If you don't agree with this you are not or fall short of being a TRUE LOST fan and you should continue picking apart the greatest show your eyes will ever see. why not?
quote:
reading this post just made me realize that fans that didn't like this episode are all having "Ben" moments right now.
we thought there was a great purpose behind this but in actuality it was just a test of faith.
all of us bashing this episode (me included) are stabbing jacob right now.
writers intention??????
eta: we've been pushing a button since 2004. irony's a motherfricker.
Mind Blown. Nicely done.
this was a slow episode, and I was pretty disappointed since there are only 2 left.
On a side note, I guess I'm the only one who thought the Adam and Eve answer was pretty awesome/surprising. I didn't see any spoilers obviously, so when he laid them down next to each other in the cave I thought it was pretty good. Sure beat the Rose & Bernard theory IMO.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:50 am to Tiger Ryno
quote:
Exactly. MIB was made to be a sympathetic character. moreso than Jacob.
They need to go back to literature 101 and re read the section on antagonists
Agreed. An antagonist being sympathetic is one thing, but he needs to be the cause of his own destruction in some form. MIB was just screwed over by a crazy mom and a momma's boy.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:50 am to Tiger Ryno
so here in is the overall scope of Lost.
We like these characters so they are our heroes, we hate these characters so they are the enemies.
if this show would have started behind the eyes of MIB we could have a totally different outlook on the entire series.
it would be interesting to see a spinoff from MIB's side of things.
maybe some special features in the dvd. or a mention in the encyclopedia of lost.
We like these characters so they are our heroes, we hate these characters so they are the enemies.
if this show would have started behind the eyes of MIB we could have a totally different outlook on the entire series.
it would be interesting to see a spinoff from MIB's side of things.
maybe some special features in the dvd. or a mention in the encyclopedia of lost.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:52 am to Uncle Stu
quote:
*I happen to think the wine is purely symbolic, and in and of itself has no physical properties to make someone immortal
I agree with that. I thought it was more the blessing (curse??) that she said before giving him the wine that bound him to the island.
quote:
*has anyone brought up the fact that the mother said "thank you" at the end? Like she wanted to die? Almost as if she had been on the island for a very long time and was ready to move on? So long, that she manipulated one of her sons to the point of killing her? - kinda familiar in the sense that MIB is manipulating people in a similar fashion
I think that's definitely possible. It's kinda like a genie in a lamp who is tied to it, except that instead of granting wishes, you have to manipulate the outside world (people) in order for your release to be granted.
In that same breath, MIB is now doing the same things (manipulating everyone) in order to break his release from his lamp (the island). And Jacob as well (the whole "candidates/finding replacements" thing).
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:53 am to The Eric
quote:
if this show would have started behind the eyes of MIB we could have a totally different outlook on the entire series
Dont tell me their inspiration came from "Wicked" for this episode
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:55 am to DivotBreath
quote:
Not to confuse the matter anymore than it already is, but who is to say the mother was not a little "smokey" herself. She could have wiped out all the people in the camp and covered the well if she was in a smoke form. She seems to know what it is like inside the cave of light based on her warnings never to go in there (which may mean she has been in there and got turned to smoke, and maybe this is how she got her powers). She seems thankful when MIB takes her life in the end, when he snuck up on her and stabbed her with a dagger before she had a chance to speak to him. Perhaps she had the conflict of good and evil inside her all along and in raising Jacob and MIB she raised two polar opposites and she was not sure which was closer to her heart until she was forced to make a decision.
I don't know, but that is the only way I can see that she wiped out that entire camp of people since I doubt she had the time to bang all their heads with a rock.
I think that is right.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:55 am to TROLA
all i am saying is that black and white is relative.
we can fight over who is bad and who is good and why they are all we want but it proves nothing.
Jacob is good because he listens to his elders... but he doesn't have a problem beating the hell out of MIB every opportunity he gets pissed off this episode.
MIB is bad because he wants to leave.... but he sure doesn't try to hurt anyone until he is finally pushed over the edge after his "mother" kills all his people and burns his bathroom down.
we can fight over who is bad and who is good and why they are all we want but it proves nothing.
Jacob is good because he listens to his elders... but he doesn't have a problem beating the hell out of MIB every opportunity he gets pissed off this episode.
MIB is bad because he wants to leave.... but he sure doesn't try to hurt anyone until he is finally pushed over the edge after his "mother" kills all his people and burns his bathroom down.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:57 am to The Eric
quote:
Sawyer has killed people, So has Sayid, Kate... Jin and Sun weren't perfect.
They are saints. Nobody thought they were. But they have been on a journey to become redeemed and be good people. They have slowly gone from being "bad" people to "good" people. Sawyer is probably the best example. MIB has gone from being relatively good to being awfully bad.
quote:
Jack is far from perfect.
Oh please. Nobody is perfect, but I can't really point to one terrible thing Jack has done. For most of his life, he has been pretty upstanding human being as best we can tell. Every bit as much as Hurley.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:58 am to AstroTiger
quote:
On a side note, I guess I'm the only one who thought the Adam and Eve answer was pretty awesome/surprising. I didn't see any spoilers
Same here, but I didn't want to say anything and be the only one.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 11:59 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
And Jacob as well (the whole "candidates/finding replacements" thing).
yep
maybe he's sick and tired of living as well, but not selfish and knows he needs to find a replacement before he departs
regardless, I think there were better and more interesting avenues they could've taken, but this is what we're left to work with
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