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Message
re: LOST "Across the Sea" S6.E15 (Jacob/MIB Centric)
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:36 am to tuck
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:36 am to tuck
quote:
You could do that with a lot of LOST episodes FWIW. There have been several, what I would call "perfect," episodes. Then there are some in between and some that are terrible. This one wasn't terrible for me, more of an in-betweener. But I think it's because my expectations were no where near what you guys who hated it were. Also, why would you want to relive your agony?
I think many of the people are missing the point though on why this episode is awful. It isn't the wheel explanation that makes it awful, or even the lack of the Temple origins. It is the fact that MIB and Jacob's characters were raped and left for dead in a ditch, and the fact that it failed to raise the stakes or tell us anything we needed to know with what is currently happening on the Island.
1
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:37 am to TDTGodfather
quote:Well, let's be honest. They didn't show post-Brother death to show us the game or what the game was. They only showed right up to when he became the smoke monster. Seems like the real game takes place after the death of both Mother and brother and his transformation into the smoke. There is still more to reveal. They haven't totally abandoned an explanation yet.
the end of season 5 with the beach scene was so intriguing it made you believe that either
1) this was a game
2) MIB/Jacob were men on opposite ends of one of life's great arguments.
but this episode took a crap on both of those notions.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:39 am to etm512
quote:
It was never spoiled for me and it had no punch so don't worry about it.
Agreed. Darlton said a few years ago that Adam and Eve will prove they had this planned from the beginning, when it proved contrary since they have been there for thousands of years and Jack said they had been dead for 40-50 years. Had no punch at all, and I wasn't spoilered either.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:39 am to OMLandshark
Well, I think the ambiguity of both characters and their oddly manic behavior in the episode were obvious and have already been pointed out. I was just mentioning that particular scene between MIB and his "mother" as something that made me raise an eyebrow.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:39 am to TDTGodfather
A couple more things:
1) It still isn't clear to me why MIB can't leave. In the episode (circa 32 AD), he just didn't have the means of escaping, but now in 2007? why can't he just get on a sub?
2) They never explained how they choose or bring people to the Island. based on this episode, it seems that MIB would want to bring in people to the Island to help him get off. Not the other way around, as we are led to believe.
3) And the whole "game" of Jacob proving people are good wasn't convincing. He didn't seem passionate enough about it to make it his ultimate goal. Plus, Jacob believed everything his mother told him - you would think he would believe her about people being inherently bad.
1) It still isn't clear to me why MIB can't leave. In the episode (circa 32 AD), he just didn't have the means of escaping, but now in 2007? why can't he just get on a sub?
2) They never explained how they choose or bring people to the Island. based on this episode, it seems that MIB would want to bring in people to the Island to help him get off. Not the other way around, as we are led to believe.
3) And the whole "game" of Jacob proving people are good wasn't convincing. He didn't seem passionate enough about it to make it his ultimate goal. Plus, Jacob believed everything his mother told him - you would think he would believe her about people being inherently bad.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:40 am to baybeefeetz
I'm about to read/skim this thread, And have only read most of the last page to kinda get an idea of peoples' thoughts on the show. I see that most were disappointed. Here are my thoughts as of now, before I read the thread:
I was a little disappointed, but still enjoyed it. Sure, some of the explanations were vague and odd (like the wheel in the core thing), but it's fricking Lost, for chrissakes...what the hell hasn't been vague and odd. At this point, I'm just along for the ride. I'll figure out things here or there, and use these discussions to form what I think is going on, and that's about it. There seems to be a lot of people mad at this episode. I agree that while it was cool to see some history on Jacob/MIB, it seems like they should have put more umph into this one (being that it's the 3rd to last one in the entire series), but still..it gave us a look at them in a different light. It was odd to me that they were simply human though, and that the chick raised them and lied to them the whole time.
Also, this was a pretty predictable episode. I called it that the mom was having twins, that their "mother" was gonna kill her after giving birth, and that she was gonna attack MIB at the core. But still, overall, I enjoyed this episode more than I disliked it.
I was a little disappointed, but still enjoyed it. Sure, some of the explanations were vague and odd (like the wheel in the core thing), but it's fricking Lost, for chrissakes...what the hell hasn't been vague and odd. At this point, I'm just along for the ride. I'll figure out things here or there, and use these discussions to form what I think is going on, and that's about it. There seems to be a lot of people mad at this episode. I agree that while it was cool to see some history on Jacob/MIB, it seems like they should have put more umph into this one (being that it's the 3rd to last one in the entire series), but still..it gave us a look at them in a different light. It was odd to me that they were simply human though, and that the chick raised them and lied to them the whole time.
Also, this was a pretty predictable episode. I called it that the mom was having twins, that their "mother" was gonna kill her after giving birth, and that she was gonna attack MIB at the core. But still, overall, I enjoyed this episode more than I disliked it.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:43 am to CocomoLSU
I'm not disappointed because I don't think we'll get better answers, but because the premise for this episode gave it the potential to be the best 40 minutes of the entire series. I can't help but think distant yesteryear will be revisited... I just think they could have done a much better job with the time alloted this week.
This post was edited on 5/12/10 at 10:46 am
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:44 am to tuck
quote:
No doubt. No need to rewatch it. It was bad. That was the most indefensible part of the episode. It bordered on the midichlorian thing that the writers say they are trying to avoid. They should have just not done anything with the wheel and it would have been better.
The writers just think if they avoid being as specific as Lucas was, while they don't realize they are quite on the border of doing so.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:48 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
Some of you I think are WAY over analyzing things. I said it about 10 pages ago but I'll reiterate- there's a hell of a lot on this show that is stupid on the face of it and doesn't make sense. For frick's sake, the island dropped into the ocean and traveled through time and space. Yet people don't seem hung up on that, rather yall are pissed that there's a light at the heart of the island instead of something cooler. There was NO WAY they could explain the properties of the island without being corny, and some of yall are now let down because of it. Here's my take from here on out: there's still some giant questions left to be answered in 3 1/2 hours, and I feel confident they will be addressed. Every small thing won't be and I'm fine with it. I don't care if they don't say MIBs name, I don't care that people in 30 AD knew how to stick a wheel into the ground. It just isn't all that important in the GRAND, over-arching scheme of the show. I learned a long time ago in this show not to worry about every minute detail and just enjoy it.
As I said earlier, many of you are missing the point on why the episode was terrible.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:49 am to White Shadeaux
quote:
White Shadeaux
quote:
No...again, we are all ok with mysteries and making our own guesses.
What we DO require is answers to what are characters' motivations. This we did not get satisfactorily last night.
You get it
This post was edited on 5/12/10 at 10:52 am
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:50 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
Tarantino intentionally didn't reveal what it was for that reason.
It's called a MacGuffin.
One MacGuffin is fine. 100 of them is not.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:51 am to tuck
quote:
Well, let's be honest. They didn't show post-Brother death to show us the game or what the game was. They only showed right up to when he became the smoke monster. Seems like the real game takes place after the death of both Mother and brother and his transformation into the smoke. There is still more to reveal. They haven't totally abandoned an explanation yet.
this
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:53 am to WikiTiger
quote:
One MacGuffin is fine. 100 of them is not.
fair enough
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:53 am to OMLandshark
quote:
You get it
Of course. Thanks.
I understand storytelling.
And as Wiki pointed out: One MacGuffin is fine. 100 of them is not.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:54 am to tuck
quote:
Well, let's be honest. They didn't show post-Brother death to show us the game or what the game was. They only showed right up to when he became the smoke monster. Seems like the real game takes place after the death of both Mother and brother and his transformation into the smoke. There is still more to reveal. They haven't totally abandoned an explanation yet.
If we had 8 hours in the show left, I'd agree with you. But they have to finish the present Island story, and the sideflash story, which seems like a long way off from wrapping up. We're out of time for this.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:54 am to White Shadeaux
I can't wait to read the thread on the finale. I know nothing about it, except that you guys will be pissed once its over. 
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:57 am to CocomoLSU
They will absolutly have to explain the "game" and "the rules" for any of this to make since. Thats my only disappointment with the episode.
We know MIB wants to leave the island, just because, and Im fine with that. We now Jacob is fatihful and gave his word that he would protect the Island. But without explaining the game and the rules everything else is just a mindfrick.
It just seems odd.. MIB has the personalty of mother and believes, after all the years spent with men, in the destructive ability of man but at the same time wants to leave and join man outside the Island. Jacob, charged with keeping the Island safe believes in the goodness of man and therefore puts the Island in jeopardy by bringing them to the Island..
We know MIB wants to leave the island, just because, and Im fine with that. We now Jacob is fatihful and gave his word that he would protect the Island. But without explaining the game and the rules everything else is just a mindfrick.
It just seems odd.. MIB has the personalty of mother and believes, after all the years spent with men, in the destructive ability of man but at the same time wants to leave and join man outside the Island. Jacob, charged with keeping the Island safe believes in the goodness of man and therefore puts the Island in jeopardy by bringing them to the Island..
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:58 am to CocomoLSU
I'm bout to rewatch in a little while, but like most I was disappointed with Across the Sea.
My main gripe is that they really only gave us the first half of the story I wanted to see. Sure I wanted to see the stuff with Jacob/MiB's "mother" and how MiB came to be Smokey, but I was also hoping for some scenes set AFTER he became Smokey that would really flesh out the conflict between he and Jacob. Obviously Jacob's desire to bring people to the Island to prove MiB wrong about man's nature and whatnot came about after all the events we saw last night, and with so little time left it seems unlikely we'll get any further explanation.
I wasn't quite as upset with the treatment of Jacob and MiB as characters. Jacob in this episode was very different than the character we've seen thus far, but I could buy that with the Island changing him and him learning a great deal over 2,000 years (or however long its been since "mother" died). I think most people are upset with the handling of the younger MiB. Most were hoping for less ambiguity regarding his intentions, and a confirmation that he really is "evil". It seems that, at least when he was younger and human, this wasn't the case. Again, we need more info on what happened with him AFTER he became Smokey....what makes him so evil now?
I'm interested to see what I think of this ep after rewatching, as I was slightly inebriated last night and missed some key dialogue in certain spots. I did enjoy it on first watch, but like most can't shake the feeling of disappointment....a lot of which stems from the fact that the show is about to end and stuff that I thought would get answered in this episode likely won't be explained.
My main gripe is that they really only gave us the first half of the story I wanted to see. Sure I wanted to see the stuff with Jacob/MiB's "mother" and how MiB came to be Smokey, but I was also hoping for some scenes set AFTER he became Smokey that would really flesh out the conflict between he and Jacob. Obviously Jacob's desire to bring people to the Island to prove MiB wrong about man's nature and whatnot came about after all the events we saw last night, and with so little time left it seems unlikely we'll get any further explanation.
I wasn't quite as upset with the treatment of Jacob and MiB as characters. Jacob in this episode was very different than the character we've seen thus far, but I could buy that with the Island changing him and him learning a great deal over 2,000 years (or however long its been since "mother" died). I think most people are upset with the handling of the younger MiB. Most were hoping for less ambiguity regarding his intentions, and a confirmation that he really is "evil". It seems that, at least when he was younger and human, this wasn't the case. Again, we need more info on what happened with him AFTER he became Smokey....what makes him so evil now?
I'm interested to see what I think of this ep after rewatching, as I was slightly inebriated last night and missed some key dialogue in certain spots. I did enjoy it on first watch, but like most can't shake the feeling of disappointment....a lot of which stems from the fact that the show is about to end and stuff that I thought would get answered in this episode likely won't be explained.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:59 am to tuck
quote:
. Seems like the real game takes place after the death of both Mother and brother and his transformation into the smoke. There is still more to reveal. They haven't totally abandoned an explanation yet.
But that was a good opportunity to do so. They only have 3.5 hours left. I really didn't need to see the entire first half of them being kids. That hour could have moved much faster and the last 15-20 minutes could have set up their argument, explained why MIB can't leave, showed how/why candidates are summoned, and moved through time through different civilizations. In fact, the crash of Oceanic 815 would have been a good ending scene.
Posted on 5/12/10 at 10:59 am to ohiosportfan777
quote:
I can't wait to read the thread on the finale. I know nothing about it, except that you guys will be pissed once its over.
Not if the story is presented in a satisfactory manner.
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