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I'm a weak man, I caved and re-watched Game of Thrones. Where it went off the rails...

Posted on 2/21/24 at 10:54 am
Posted by iwyLSUiwy
I'm your huckleberry
Member since Apr 2008
34202 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 10:54 am
for me (I know it was earlier for most), was season 7, episode 6, Beyond the Wall. The quality had already been dropping obviously, which was to be expected given they ran out of source and you couldn't expect Dumb and Dumber to write as good as GRRM. But, nothing imo had been just completely ridiculous as S7 EP6.

Let's think about this for a minute (long post incoming). Just the plan in general was completely idiotic. Why in the world would they think that Cersei would even remotely care about the army of the dead/the Night King? There was zero chance she was ever going to help out and if anything, seeing one would make her happy that they were marching on Winterfell. So a handful of guys risk everything to go up against thousands upon thousands of wights and white walkers just for the chance to possibly capture one and bring it back to Cersei, what a brilliant plan. I guess the army of the dead will stop marching on the wall while they make their little trip to Kings Landing.

Then good old Gendry, who can run 80 MPH without a breather, makes it back to the wall and passes the torch to a raven that can fly 400 MPH, he passes the torch to Dany. All of this in a span of a few hours. Meanwhile the army of the dead are completely content just waiting there (while at the Battle of Winterfell they are literally throwing themselves on fire so they can get over the traps). The Hound (whom I love) decides to be the biggest idiot ever and throw a rock at them, because that'll really show em, and he let's them know the pond is iced over.

So Dany comes to save the day and they are making a perfectly fine get away on the dragon, but Jon inexplicably decides that he doesn't need to get on the dragon and get away but wants to be a hero and kill just a few more inconsequential wights that would have made no difference at all. If he would have just got on with everyone else, they could have presumably flown away safely. But no, he stalls Dany/everyone to kill a few more so in the mean time the Knight King can ice javelin a dragon down and give him the dragon they need to get past the wall.

Almost every other option out there was a better plan that what they did. 1) Fly to Kings Landing, burn up Cersei/take the throne and use your new army to help fight the dead. 2) Let the army of the dead march on the wall and fight them there and burn up the army. 3) Just let Jon and company die out there and live to fight another day but just with 6-7 less men. Your useless mission handed them the only thing that could let them get passed the wall.

Every single detail of that episode made no sense. Even wasting Benjen coming back. He for some reason can't put Jon on his horse and ride him back to the wall, there's no time for that. More important was him killing a few wights so a half dead/freezing Jon can I guess now walk back faster and get away from the army.

Long read I know. But on the re-watch (which I swore I never would do), I was actually not bothered by as much as I remember. Outside of the ridiculous Dorne plot and all of Dorne being ok with Ellaria Sand killing Doran Martell and Areo Hotah because Doran didn't do anything over Oberyns "murder". He wasn't murdered you idiot, he chose to be in a fight to the death match and he lost fair and square. That sucked, but that was his choice and he cost himself his life by being arrogant. Even with an insignificant character over throwing the leader of Dorne can be excused because we got the glorious boobs of Tyene Sand and "bad poosy"

Ok ok I'm done. I will defend the Battle of Winterfell though, I'm sorry, that was a bad arse battle outside of completely wasting her Khalasar on a dumb charge into the night. It was a gritty, dirty, smokey battle and needed to be dark. Jon should have had a showdown with the Night King but Arya was my favorite character in the books and the show so I didn't have a problem with her killing the Night King as most did.

I won't go intot he ending of the show, which I could write an essay on.
Posted by drizztiger
Deal With it!
Member since Mar 2007
36946 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 11:05 am to
quote:

I'm a weak man, I caved and re-watched Game of Thrones.


quote:

Every single detail of that episode made no sense.
It’s complete nonsense for all the reasons you posted. When we first watched it we were pissed off at how idiotic it was. Now whenever I rewatch I just laugh at the idiocy. I would have loved to be in the writers room when that episode was pitched. You mean you’re going to pay me to write a whole bunch of nonsense? Cool.
Posted by LSUNWO1988
Member since Feb 2024
405 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 11:10 am to
The last two episodes of season 6 are some of the greatest in television. They should have done 10 seasons like GRRM wanted. Shortening 7 & 8 along with the year gap is much of the reason it failed
Posted by Blitzed
Member since Oct 2009
21287 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 11:11 am to
TLDR.

Show ends for me after white walker battle.
Posted by Triple Bogey
19th Green
Member since May 2017
5976 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 11:15 am to
quote:

I will defend the Battle of Winterfell though, I'm sorry, that was a bad arse battle


Posted by SCLSUMuddogs
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2010
6859 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 11:16 am to
I remember thinking very similar things as I was watching that episode. I was already getting a bit uncomfortable with the pacing as soon as they got past the books, but that episode kinda ticked me off. Every time someone went on a trek past the wall it was portrayed as a long and arduous journey that took days, weeks, months even to get to the destination. It took Dany and the dragon like a half hour to get over there and save the day at the last minute.

I don't blame the showrunners though, I blame Martin. The series should have been finished years ago. The showrunners did not expect to have to create a conclusion


ETA: I would have been fine with Arya killing the night king if it wasn't such a dumbass death. Had it been more akin to when Eowyn killed the witch king, I'd have been all about it
This post was edited on 2/21/24 at 11:18 am
Posted by Byron Bojangles III
Member since Nov 2012
51622 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 11:25 am to
I'll jump in because this was my #1 favorite show of all time and now is out of my top 5 because of Dumb and Dumber.

On record that seasons 1-4 are the best television ever produced.

Also after having purchased an OLED TV and a panasonic UB820 player i do plan on re-watching in 4K as i read it's the best looking show or movie out there today in 4K.

I'll address in order.

quote:

Why in the world would they think that Cersei would even remotely care about the army of the dead/the Night King? There was zero chance she was ever going to help out and if anything, seeing one would make her happy that they were marching on Winterfell.
they just truly had no idea how narcissistic she was, they truly thought that seeing a WW would jolt her help because if the WW's marched and took over then she's dead/out of power so she'd do what she had to do to stay in power.

quote:

Then good old Gendry, who can run 80 MPH without a breather, makes it back to the wall and passes the torch to a raven that can fly 400 MPH, he passes the torch to Dany. All of this in a span of a few hours.


Yeah this never made sense and you just can't justify. Terrible writing.

quote:

Meanwhile the army of the dead are completely content just waiting there (while at the Battle of Winterfell they are literally throwing themselves on fire so they can get over the traps).


The Night King does control all of the WW so he was most likely telling them to do this and as a strategy isn't a bad one considering he out numbers them.

quote:

The Hound (whom I love) decides to be the biggest idiot ever and throw a rock at them, because that'll really show em, and he let's them know the pond is iced over.
Again how do you even justify throwing a rock? let the NK think he's sacrificing some WW to see if the water is frozen to find out, terrible writing by clowns.

quote:

So Dany comes to save the day and they are making a perfectly fine get away on the dragon, but Jon inexplicably decides that he doesn't need to get on the dragon and get away but wants to be a hero and kill just a few more inconsequential wights that would have made no difference at all. If he would have just got on with everyone else, they could have presumably flown away safely. But no, he stalls Dany/everyone to kill a few more so in the mean time the Knight King can ice javelin a dragon down and give him the dragon they need to get past the wall.
Jon's story is the one i hate the most. They made him like Eric from Boy Meets World, an idiot for no reason. He's brought back to life by the Lord of Light FOR LITERALLY NO REASON. What he's brought back to kill Dani? It was always Jon's story to go from bastard to the Prince that was Promised and they fumbled the bag so bad. Like he feels so guilty he just self isolates at the wall to end up being his Uncle Benjen. Give me a fricking break.

quote:

Ok ok I'm done. I will defend the Battle of Winterfell though, I'm sorry, that was a bad arse battle outside of completely wasting her Khalasar on a dumb charge into the night. It was a gritty, dirty, smokey battle and needed to be dark. Jon should have had a showdown with the Night King but Arya was my favorite character in the books and the show so I didn't have a problem with her killing the Night King as most did.
Every battle they did was well planned and executed i'll give them that.

quote:

I won't go intot he ending of the show, which I could write an essay on.


I could write a goddamn dissertation on it
This post was edited on 2/21/24 at 11:27 am
Posted by Byron Bojangles III
Member since Nov 2012
51622 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 11:34 am to
quote:

I would have loved to be in the writers room when that episode was pitched.


i remember the behind the scenes of the cast doing their first table read of the final season.

all of their reactions are a direct reflection of the shite arse writing.

imagine as a writer seeing these reactions to your story







Posted by jefforize
Member since Feb 2008
44077 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 11:43 am to
quote:


It is said Ramsay Bolton forced Theon to watch the Sand Snakes scenes for day and night.


LINK

its so bad
This post was edited on 2/21/24 at 11:46 am
Posted by ScottFowler
NE Ohio
Member since Sep 2012
4128 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 11:47 am to
quote:

imagine as a writer seeing these reactions to your story


OMG, hadn't seen that one before....
Posted by ohiovol
Member since Jan 2010
20828 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 11:48 am to
Aside from the logic of it all, the scene where the Night King throws his plot device ice spear just looks so silly. There had to be a better way to kill it.
Posted by 3nOut
Central Texas, TX
Member since Jan 2013
28836 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 11:51 am to
quote:

Ok ok I'm done. I will defend the Battle of Winterfell though, I'm sorry, that was a bad arse battle outside of completely wasting her Khalasar on a dumb charge into the night. It was a gritty, dirty, smokey battle and needed to be dark. Jon should have had a showdown with the Night King but Arya was my favorite character in the books and the show so I didn't have a problem with her killing the Night King as most did.



i don't strongly disagree with any of this.
Posted by scottydoesntknow
Member since Nov 2023
1978 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 12:07 pm to
I am a chronic rewatcher...but the ending of that show was so bad that it killed any desire for me to rewatch it. Its amazing how it went from such high highs to the lowest low. Battle of the Bastards for me was peak TV. I watched it at a watch party at a bar and it was like watching an Iron Bowl.
Posted by Shiftyplus1
Regret nothing that made you smile
Member since Oct 2005
13341 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 12:07 pm to
It went off the rails when they ran out of books to adapt
Posted by drizztiger
Deal With it!
Member since Mar 2007
36946 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 12:16 pm to
quote:

Every battle they did was well planned and executed i'll give them that.
Miguel Sapochnik
Posted by joshnorris14
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
45205 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 12:28 pm to
quote:

Why in the world would they think that Cersei would even remotely care about the army of the dead/the Night King?


Is this any worse than Tyrion convincing Dany (Who for some reason is also now retarded enough to take this advice) to march on King's Landing (Which is now seemingly located in the middle of a desert) without dragons to get Cersei to bend the knee?
Posted by Triple Bogey
19th Green
Member since May 2017
5976 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 12:31 pm to
quote:

I will defend the Battle of Winterfell though


Aside from the fact that all the main characters were running around with the thickest plot armor to ever exist for an hour and the entire dothraki army gets wiped out in the first 5 minutes. Sam Tarley I thought was dead 10 times only to be completely fine in the end. Just completely botched.

Arya easily killing the NK and ending the series long build up of the WW was probably the most unsatisfying way I could think of to defeat a villain.
Posted by drizztiger
Deal With it!
Member since Mar 2007
36946 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 12:38 pm to
quote:

Aside from the fact that all the main characters were running around with the thickest plot armor to ever exist for an hour and the entire dothraki army gets wiped out in the first 5 minutes. Sam Tarley I thought was dead 10 times only to be completely fine in the end. Just completely botched.
“I wanted to kill everyone,” Sapochnik said. “I wanted to kill Jorah in the horse charge at the beginning. I was up for killing absolutely everyone. I wanted it to be ruthless, so that in the first 10 minutes you say, ‘All bets are off; anyone could die.’ And David and Dan didn’t want to. There was a lot of back-and-forth on that.” Dumb and Dumber.
Posted by JDPndahizzy
JDP
Member since Nov 2013
6420 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 12:41 pm to
Every time I see a GOT thread I can't help but rewatch these..

Series Pitch

Season 8 pitch

Posted by iwyLSUiwy
I'm your huckleberry
Member since Apr 2008
34202 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

On record that seasons 1-4 are the best television ever produced.


I'd pretty much agree. Top 3 at the minimum for me.

quote:

they just truly had no idea how narcissistic she was, they truly thought that seeing a WW would jolt her help because if the WW's marched and took over then she's dead/out of power so she'd do what she had to do to stay in power.


I think the city would have been ready to turn on her asap. Blowing up the Sept of Baelor with a beloved queen in it would have caused a riot, not everyone just following her like she was a great leader. Similar to Stannis' army after he burned up Shireen. Nobody is going to want to follow someone that burns up their little girl.

quote:

Jon's story is the one i hate the most. They made him like Eric from Boy Meets World, an idiot for no reason. He's brought back to life by the Lord of Light FOR LITERALLY NO REASON. What he's brought back to kill Dani? It was always Jon's story to go from bastard to the Prince that was Promised and they fumbled the bag so bad. Like he feels so guilty he just self isolates at the wall to end up being his Uncle Benjen. Give me a fricking break.


Yea, it was so bad. They just ignored the main prophecy of the entire show. The Prince that was Promised ended up being actually nothing. On what planet would you disregard that plot line. I also don't get why Jon just didn't ride it out with Dany. You don't want to be king, then just keep your mouth shut and let your true identity be hidden. If you marry Dany yall will basically be ruling together anyway. And you've already had sex with her, there's no going back from that :lol; so at this point it doesn't even matter if she's family and it's how the Targaryens did things anyway. Plus she is smoking hot. No idea why he would turn that down. So instead of being by Dany's side ruling the seven kingdoms, you kill her and get banished by your brother to be beyond the wall... the wall that is wide open now.

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