re: House of the Dragon - Episode 2.2 - Spoilers okay

quote:

---

I'm not saying the liberties they are taking are bad for the story but you can't really argue it's not the angle they've taken.

---

I would argue that the angle the are taking is that people aren't as competent as history makes them seem. Things don't always go as planned but history makes every move seem purposeful.

And its not like they are only removing culpability from the women, they made Vhagar killing Luke and Arrax an accident too.

quote:

---

Both women have already lost children/grandchildren in this war and it really hasn’t even gotten going yet. That’s far from “watered down culpability”. It’s also FAR too early to say this is the case. I’m also not sure how you can say this is a female centric thing when Daemon has done pretty horrible shite without any real culpability. He just takes his ball and flies off to wherever when he gets called on it.

---

You're not speaking to culpability, though. Investment and loss is not culpability.

As for Daemon, you're talking about accountability, not culpability. The show very obviously shows his role in escalating this conflict. With Alicent and Rhaenyra they are adding things to the story that weren't in the books that cast them in a better light.

quote:

---

The've watered down the culpability of both of the main women for the escalation.

---

Idk how one could possibly think this about Alicent especially after last night’s episode. I think the episode did a good job of showing just how incompetent a lot of people are surrounding both Greens and Blacks. The only ones not acting impetuous are Corlys/Rhaenys for the Blacks and Otto for the Greens. Everyone else just can’t get out of their own way and keep fricking everything up

The brothers said it was Erryk that won the fight and kills himself, so the problem is with the choreography and editing.

I just watched the scene again.

Erryk 100% gets his thigh slashed by Arryk. Immediately after that slash, Arryk turns to cut down Rhaenyra as she runs away and Erryk tackles him into the vase. At some point after that, the leg wound switches twins.

quote:

---

It's hard to tell, but Arryk is on the offensive most of the fight, with Erryk playing defense — not wanting to kill his brother but protecting his defenseless queen. When the final sword thrust reveals itself, it's Erryk sobbing and hugging the brother he's just run his sword through.

"You get to see the real human side of him pierce through," says Elliott, who was pleased to "show the world the connection we have as twins in the end."

With the assassin-brother dead, Erryk steps towards the still wary Queen before proclaiming, "Your grace, forgive me." To the shock and horror of all, the distraught knight impales himself on his sword. The legendary double tragedy is complete.

"The pain Erryk felt when he kills his brother is the most intense feeling he's ever felt," says Elliott. "When he says, 'Forgive me' he's saying it to Rhyneara because he's about to sacrifice himself in front of her. But it's also directed towards his brother."

---

USA Today interview with twins

quote:

---

This is where I’m at too. The Rogue Prince thing was cool in Season 1 and him walking to his brother and helping him up the stairs to the Iron Throne and placing the crown on Viserys was my favorite moment of Season 1. But it’s been downhill for him ever since. Him talking shite about his brother and even Rhaenyra during their fight left me just disappointed. Thought he had gotten over that

But I can also see why GRRM said Daemon was one of his favorite characters he has written.

---

I see it as he is a man that does love his family but at his core is very selfish. So at times he helps his family and seems like a good guy but eventually his selfishness always comes to the surface and influences his actions.

quote:

---

The brothers said it was Erryk that won the fight and kills himself, so the problem is with the choreography and editing.

I just watched the scene again.

Erryk 100% gets his thigh slashed by Arryk. Immediately after that slash, Arryk turns to cut down Rhaenyra as she runs away and Erryk tackles him into the vase. At some point after that, the leg wound switches twins.

quote:
It's hard to tell, but Arryk is on the offensive most of the fight, with Erryk playing defense — not wanting to kill his brother but protecting his defenseless queen. When the final sword thrust reveals itself, it's Erryk sobbing and hugging the brother he's just run his sword through.

"You get to see the real human side of him pierce through," says Elliott, who was pleased to "show the world the connection we have as twins in the end."

With the assassin-brother dead, Erryk steps towards the still wary Queen before proclaiming, "Your grace, forgive me." To the shock and horror of all, the distraught knight impales himself on his sword. The legendary double tragedy is complete.

"The pain Erryk felt when he kills his brother is the most intense feeling he's ever felt," says Elliott. "When he says, 'Forgive me' he's saying it to Rhyneara because he's about to sacrifice himself in front of her. But it's also directed towards his brother."

---

If this is true, they really messed up that scene. It 100% looked as though the Balck twin lost and the Green twin won and killed himself. I do agree that the actions post fight were much more believable if the blacks twin won BUT we all saw the fight turn when the green twin grabbed the leg wound that we all saw inflicted on the black twin.

Honestly with this show making the Valyrians dark skinned for ease of distinguishing one family from another, I am shocked that they didn't make it more obvious which twin was which. But I guess they kind of had to make them indistinguishable to show why no one else could get involved to tip the scales.

I would hope going forward that Rhaenyra would make some sort of change to her kings guard uniforms so she can accurately distinguish her real guards from imposters. But then again, there aren't any more identical twins that we know of.

I swear to god, if Game of Thrones were to make its debut this year, most of you would be Team Joffrey. Y’all would have also cheered when Ned Stark was decapitated and during the Red Wedding.

quote:

---

That's a fair point but they are still heavily casting Alicent and Rhaenyra as victims of circumstances. That's not true to the book, especially with respect to Alicent.

Again, it doesn't mean it doesn't work but it's a noticeable difference.

---

But really Alicent is a product of being Otto's child. He was placing her in positions to manipulate and gain power since she was a teenager.

quote:

---

I'm not purposefully omitting anything. If anything, the multiple viewpoints strengthens my argument. 3 different accounts and none of them suggest this hole thing was ignited by Alicent misunderstanding Viserys. That is a deliberate angle.

I'll say it again, it doesn't mean I dislike the direction. They've essentially just added a fourth account of the events and I'm sharing my observation on their take. You can disagree with that if you like but you might try attacking the position rather than suggesting I'm being deceitful.

---

You obviously know that the book is essentially just a history of what happened, in order to create a coherent television show they have to add some reasons why things occur and occasionally these are things that happen behind closed doors that can't possibly be known by anyone except those involved in the happenings. If they would just follow the books the only scenes that would occur would have to happen with Mushroom or the Maester in the room. There would be zero scenes with just Alicent and Viserys.