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Posted on 8/29/17 at 10:18 pm to Scoob
Well, the Grand Maester's diary (or was it the High Septon's) confirms at least part of it. I don't think the part Gilly read stated Lyanna's name but I think she was just paraphrasing. Plus, just the fact that Rheagar got his marriage annulled and got re-married gives Sam and Bran some backup. Especially if the time lines link up.
Now we just have to hope Sam didn't destroy the original when he copied it.
Now we just have to hope Sam didn't destroy the original when he copied it.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 10:25 pm to Methuselah
True story not to mention the famed fight between Ned and Arthur, Reeds name is in the lore of that conflict. His word would do it all I think.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 10:39 pm to CrimsonBoz
What did Ned tell people about the ToJ anyway? That he fought the Kingsguard guys and found Lyanna already dead? And what did he say was the cause of death? And about why they put up a fight?
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:02 pm to Methuselah
It really is a suspension of disbelief that Ned could have fooled everyone with it. I don't see there being any way Tywin would overlook the Kingsguard being killed by Ned. I'd look at Arthur Dayne and Gerold Hightower to be a far greater threat to the realm than Viserys himself. The White Bull had significant connections in Essos that could get him military support and The Sword of the Morning was the most beloved warrior in Westeros since Aemon the Dragonknight and could gather a closet army from all over Westeros. Without them, Viserys stood no real chance in taking back the throne given that many thought he had his father's madness.
Rhaegar having a child with Lyanna should have been a terrifying prospect for Tywin with those 2 raising him and at his side. Once they weren't found with the Tyrells, I think Tywin would have gone into panic mode given what he had done. I really don't realistically see Tywin or Varys overlooking this key detail, because Jaime is very much aware that Ned slew Arthur Dayne.
Rhaegar having a child with Lyanna should have been a terrifying prospect for Tywin with those 2 raising him and at his side. Once they weren't found with the Tyrells, I think Tywin would have gone into panic mode given what he had done. I really don't realistically see Tywin or Varys overlooking this key detail, because Jaime is very much aware that Ned slew Arthur Dayne.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:07 pm to Bluefin
quote:
Did Cersei know beforehand that they were bringing a wight, and that this was the opportunity for Euron to make it look like he was fleeing?
Could be that, but it is more likely just shitty writing now that they have sailed past the books and have to fill in the gaps on their own.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:42 pm to OMLandshark
One thing I can't figure out is why they cut out either Oswell or the white bull from ToJ scene? Just one extra guy who cares how they die they all died.
So from what I gather Ned didn't say much about where Jon came from or at all. The rumor was he and Ashara loved each other dating back to the tournament and that it was their child. She killed her self after hearing about Arthur from Ned, he returned Dawn to Starfall after the fight. So that rumor is going on about where Jon came from and meanwhile Ned only spoke about the fight with Arthur not the circumstances of him being there until much later. Either way Reed is the only dude in the books that is a credible source. He has to play a role in this.
So from what I gather Ned didn't say much about where Jon came from or at all. The rumor was he and Ashara loved each other dating back to the tournament and that it was their child. She killed her self after hearing about Arthur from Ned, he returned Dawn to Starfall after the fight. So that rumor is going on about where Jon came from and meanwhile Ned only spoke about the fight with Arthur not the circumstances of him being there until much later. Either way Reed is the only dude in the books that is a credible source. He has to play a role in this.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:45 pm to CrimsonBoz
quote:
One thing I can't figure out is why they cut out either Oswell or the white bull from ToJ scene? Just one extra guy who cares how they die they all died.
Honestly, they should have done that scene word for word. There is not wasted word in that exchange. Keep in mind that Ned didn't ask a single question but was just very direct with them, and they were direct in return. There can be no question with that exchange that everyone there knew what was up that Tower and the Kingsguard didn't deny it since he brought his closest companions instead of an army.
quote:
So from what I gather Ned didn't say much about where Jon came from or at all. The rumor was he and Ashara loved each other dating back to the tournament and that it was their child. She killed her self after hearing about Arthur from Ned, he returned Dawn to Starfall after the fight. So that rumor is going on about where Jon came from and meanwhile Ned only spoke about the fight with Arthur not the circumstances of him being there until much later. Either way Reed is the only dude in the books that is a credible source. He has to play a role in this.
Ned stopped off in King's Landing for a bit to tell Robert what happened, and from there went North to Riverrun to pick up Catelyn.
This post was edited on 8/29/17 at 11:47 pm
Posted on 8/30/17 at 8:59 am to OMLandshark
Ok, here's my latest navel gazing exercise:
How much of Rhaegar's courting, marrying and impregnating Lyanna was due to his desire to fulfill the prophecy and how much was he actually head over heel in love with and had the hots for her.
We don't know that much about him but from what we do know he doesn't seem like the type to toss aside his first wife out of infatuation/passion. But he does seem like someone obsessed with the prophecy and willing to do anything to fulfill it.
How much of Rhaegar's courting, marrying and impregnating Lyanna was due to his desire to fulfill the prophecy and how much was he actually head over heel in love with and had the hots for her.
We don't know that much about him but from what we do know he doesn't seem like the type to toss aside his first wife out of infatuation/passion. But he does seem like someone obsessed with the prophecy and willing to do anything to fulfill it.
Posted on 8/30/17 at 10:07 am to Green Chili Tiger
I can't remember if this has been broached yet, but who do y'all think is the mole in Dany's party? It kinda seems like to me that Cersei knows some shite about Dany and her party.
Posted on 8/30/17 at 10:16 am to Methuselah
quote:
I think I prefer the Blackfyre theory. But admittedly that's mostly because I like the "Varys is a Blackfyre and he wants to see the son of his sister (also a Blackfyre) and Illyrio on the throne" theory.
I would hate it if Aegon is really who they say he is. It would be ridiculous to introduce Rhaegar's son in book 5 of 7. It would be one thing if we had been following his character in books 1-4 and/or if there had been more evidence a switch had been made. It would be really weak storytelling to introduce like GRRM did if he isn't an imposter.
Posted on 8/30/17 at 10:20 am to Methuselah
quote:
How much of Rhaegar's courting, marrying and impregnating Lyanna was due to his desire to fulfill the prophecy and how much was he actually head over heel in love with and had the hots for her.
Probably 50/50.
quote:
We don't know that much about him but from what we do know he doesn't seem like the type to toss aside his first wife out of infatuation/passion. But he does seem like someone obsessed with the prophecy and willing to do anything to fulfill it.
The clues are there that the romance started roughly around the time of the Tournament at Harrenhal. Recall that it was thrown by Lord Whent (a Tully bannerman) to celebrate the name day of his daughter. Apparently, House Whent did not thrive as his wife (also a Whent by birth, so the whole "only Targs" engage in incest seems to be a false trope - "only Starks" don't, apparently) - is the only contemporary alive at the time of the War of the Five Kings and after. Littlefinger tells Sansa at some point that even the old lady Whent has died. More trivia is that Lord Whent's brother, Oswell, was with Arthur Dayne and the White Bull at the Tower of Joy and was killed by Ned and the north men.
Anyway, the tourney in question was a grand event - 10 days and saw critical events to Westeros occur - including Jaime's elevation to Kingsguard (at 15), Rhaegar was reportedly using the tourney as a ruse to discuss removal of his father, Rhaegar won the tourney, defeating 4 of the Kingsguard (including Dayne and Selmy), Bronze Yohn and Brandon Stark in the process.
An unknown knight (Knight of the Laughing Tree) also dispatched some mid-level knights, then disappeared. Long believed to have been a crannogman (and most likely Howland Reed) because of small stature, many believe this "knight" was actually Lyanna Stark.
Upon his victory in the tourney, Rhaegar embarrassingly chose Lyanna as Queen of Love and Beauty over his own wife, Elia, who was in attendance.
Now - whether he did all of that for love, prophecy or both, who knows?
This post was edited on 8/30/17 at 10:24 am
Posted on 8/30/17 at 10:21 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
can't remember if this has been broached yet, but who do y'all think is the mole in Dany's party?
There doesn't have to be a mole. Recall that Qyburn has been running his own intelligence operation for a while - using some of Varys' assets. How much Varys has been able to recover his network since returning to Westeros remains to be seen. Just routine intelligence operations can yield what Cersei knows about Dany et al.
Posted on 8/30/17 at 10:33 am to wildtigercat93
quote:I think this might be it also. It would also explain why Tyrion was so intent on discussing who would rule after Dany this past episode
Tyrion offers to make Cerceis child the heir to Danys reign?
Posted on 8/30/17 at 10:37 am to Pelican fan99
Everyone keeps dismissing that theory but it's the only one that makes sense with that scene and the conversations about her heir being shoehorned In 
Posted on 8/30/17 at 10:41 am to TheIrishFro
quote:
You're correct. It matters about who the father is, not where the baby is born. If Jon Snow was born as a bastard from a targaryen his last name would have been Waters, even if he was born in Dorne
If anything it would be where the mother is from. Brynden Rivers was the son of Aegon the Unworthy and either a Bracken or a Blackwood. He was a Rivers not a Waters.
Posted on 8/30/17 at 10:44 am to DawgCountry
quote:
frick. Yes
Arya served his arse
WHAT IF Arya takes Littlefinger's face and goes down to King's Landing to kill Cercei? Now that would be insane. The Hound then can come back and just slice up the Mountain and Arya can kill the Hound.
Posted on 8/30/17 at 11:13 am to LSU2NO
My only problem with the whole episode? The Queensguard sucked balls. If the Hound hadn't jerked that chain, the wight would have torn Cersi apart.
Posted on 8/30/17 at 11:25 am to TheGator
quote:
Brynden Rivers was the son of Aegon the Unworthy and either a Bracken or a Blackwood. He was a Rivers not a Waters.
Correct - most of the great bastards were Rivers, not Waters. Blackfyre was Waters because his mother was Targ. Bittersteel (out of Barbra Bracken), Bloodraven, Gwenys and Mya (out of Melissa Blackwood) were all Rivers.
Shiera Seaster (out of Serenei of Lys) was the youngest of the great bastards and believed to be the mother of Melisandre (with Bloodraven).
This post was edited on 8/30/17 at 11:26 am
Posted on 8/30/17 at 11:25 am to Aubie Spr96
I think they were in shock honestly even the mountain lol. They didn't even move one inch. I would have let the walker kill her arse personally and gang up on the mountain. Case closed.
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