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re: Game of Thrones S4:E4 "Oathkeeper" A Meltdown for Book Maesters (SPOILERS)
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:35 pm to Finkle is Einhorn
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:35 pm to Finkle is Einhorn
Can only imagine what the fanboys on the ASOIAF forum on Westeros.org are doing...they're all probably freaking out that it's not happening verbatim to the books...hence the reason why I don't go on that forum anymore. They criticize every single change.
1
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:41 pm to Finkle is Einhorn
quote:
The 13 is a hint to confirm to readers that he is indeed the Night's King. Hbo later on confirmed it for everyone on the show synopsis
Which pisses me off. That is one hell of a big fricking plot hole. The great other being younger than the wall makes absolutely zero fricking sense.
I guess he could be the great other's champion. If that is the case I have no idea why he has been dicking around for a couple thousand years though. And if there is a female other, that can have children (I assume since the night's king gave one his seed), then why the hell aren't they breeding.
This post was edited on 4/27/14 at 11:44 pm
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:42 pm to Napoleon
quote:
Looks like it won't follow the books.
This is why I have stopped watching twice. Stopped after the first episode of season 2 when one of Dany's bloodriders was killed on the show. Some friends started watching and asked me a ton of questions, so I picked it back up mid season 3 to answer their questions. But when they did not have Bran meet the good White Walker to guide him beyond the Wall, I was teetering on stopping watching. Having him caught by the men at Craster's Keep is the final straw. I am quitting the show a second time.
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:46 pm to ladytiger118
I'm ok with the Night's King reveal I guess. But I don't know why they have to change Jon Snow and Bran's stories like they are.
They could have taken a sentence which is Coldhands saying he killed the mutineers and turned it into a 10-15 minute scene introducing Coldhands and showing how he killed them since we (book readers) don't get those details.
And that's why I say the show will only pass the books if they want it to. And based on tonight it looks like they want to beat GRRM to the finish and I think that's bullshite
They could have taken a sentence which is Coldhands saying he killed the mutineers and turned it into a 10-15 minute scene introducing Coldhands and showing how he killed them since we (book readers) don't get those details.
And that's why I say the show will only pass the books if they want it to. And based on tonight it looks like they want to beat GRRM to the finish and I think that's bullshite
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:47 pm to LeonPhelps
I don't get that at all. Jaws was a great book and a great movie. Very little followed the book onto screen. Why is this any different?
Different mediums need different outcomes. Enjoy them both equally.
Different mediums need different outcomes. Enjoy them both equally.
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:47 pm to Napoleon
Think about it everyone--Bran only had 3 chapters in ADWD and they covered all of his ASoS material last season...he can't be meeting Bloodraven this early and Jojen turning into paste in season 4...I approve of the change to the Bran story.
And who knows--the scene with the Others and Great Other could very well happen in TWoW in one way, shape, or form. It's necessary to show them every now and then in the show to show who the true threat is.
And who knows--the scene with the Others and Great Other could very well happen in TWoW in one way, shape, or form. It's necessary to show them every now and then in the show to show who the true threat is.
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:48 pm to skirpnasty
Who says they aren't breeding? The show was just showing what happens to Craster's boys.
The Night's King they exposed in the show tonight is not the Great Other. You are getting them confused
The Night's King they exposed in the show tonight is not the Great Other. You are getting them confused
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:49 pm to glassman
Get out of here with your rational thoughts glass, youre supposed to be freaking out and cancelling your HBO
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:50 pm to LeonPhelps
Random thoughts:
I did not care for "Pin the spear on the Hodor".
Janos Slynt: The Voice of Reason.
I do not want the "Women of Craster's Keep" calendar...
Was that Ser Pounce purring or Tommen?
Pretty sure I saw that White Walker's steed in a community theater stage version of War Horse...
I have no doubt that the Queen of Thorns was very good since I am old enough to remember how Diana Rigg looked in her Avenger's body suit...
I did not care for "Pin the spear on the Hodor".
Janos Slynt: The Voice of Reason.
I do not want the "Women of Craster's Keep" calendar...
Was that Ser Pounce purring or Tommen?
Pretty sure I saw that White Walker's steed in a community theater stage version of War Horse...
I have no doubt that the Queen of Thorns was very good since I am old enough to remember how Diana Rigg looked in her Avenger's body suit...
This post was edited on 4/28/14 at 12:00 am
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:53 pm to Finkle is Einhorn
quote:
Who says they aren't breeding? The show was just showing what happens to Craster's boys. The Night's King they exposed in the show tonight is not the Great Other. You are getting them confused
Yes, you are correct in that I'm getting confused. I guess my assumptions were that the great other would logically be the one to create new white walkers. I'm still going to wait until GRRM says who he was. I don't think a deserter from the watch would be allowed to live after his keep was overthrown. It would make way more sense for him to have died and Craster to be one of his descendants. Would also explain why his line is unique, they are descendant of bran stark and the female other.
quote:
And who knows--the scene with the Others and Great Other could very well happen in TWoW in one way, shape, or form. It's necessary to show them every now and then in the show to show who the true threat is.
I'm 99% certain we just watched the prologue to winds of winter.
This post was edited on 4/27/14 at 11:57 pm
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:56 pm to glassman
It's not just for this book series but most books that are adapted to film change up something. A lot of the time they change things just for the sake of changing them. Why? These books are simply amazing and probably the greatest fantasy series ever written. So some of is have a hard time understanding why you would need to change things especially since the series is not completed. I for one don't want the show to pass the books either so there's my bias. Some of us didn't start reading after season 2 ended
Posted on 4/28/14 at 12:04 am to OMLandshark
quote:
The creators have said it will actually be better than Blackwater.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 12:06 am to skirpnasty
The Other we seen tonight that changed the baby into an other is the Night's King. There is no question about it.
The Great Other is the cold/ice rival to fire god R'hllor. Many theories about who this could be
The Great Other is the cold/ice rival to fire god R'hllor. Many theories about who this could be
Posted on 4/28/14 at 12:09 am to Cosmo
quote:
Get out of here with your rational thoughts glass, youre supposed to be freaking out and cancelling your HBO
Nope, just getting something in return...
Posted on 4/28/14 at 12:11 am to Finkle is Einhorn
quote:
why?
You have a limited number of resources (actors) and the original source material isn't always perfect. Were Tywin and Arya not an awesome addition that was not in the books.
How about Bronn? Everyone loves his character, especially on the show, yet midway through book 3 he starts to become more and more absent. On the hbo adaptation, they decided to pair him with Jaime as his training partner rather than the mute ilyn Paine, and voila you keep an awesome character in the rotation and have another awesome pairing ofofcharacters to observe. Not to mention there's not a lot of plot to stretch out with Bran for the next few seasons. And Dany's Mereenese knot which wasn't the best to read could be infinitely more interesting on screen, and NEEDS to be.
Also, there are countless things that were vaguely reference in the books that we now get to observe, and these will have to get some embellishment as the books only mentioned them. For example, Margaery influencing Tommen; unsullied infiltrating the slums of Mereen; craster mutineers; Theon becoming reek; and a lot else.
Another change was Locke, but I think hes an awesome character and am intrigued and how that situation turns out.
Really,just breathe, and accept that there will be some deviations. But I honestly trust the creators of this show that these deviations will never take away from the story or alter it, only enhance it.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 12:12 am to Finkle is Einhorn
quote:
Some of us didn't start reading after season 2 ended
I'm there as well. I've read the series twice and have no issue with differences. I like being surprised.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 12:18 am to Finkle is Einhorn
quote:
It's not just for this book series but most books that are adapted to film change up something. A lot of the time they change things just for the sake of changing them. Why? These books are simply amazing and probably the greatest fantasy series ever written. So some of is have a hard time understanding why you would need to change things especially since the series is not completed. I for one don't want the show to pass the books either so there's my bias. Some of us didn't start reading after season 2 ended
Wow, did you realize how uppity and pompous this was going to make you sound as you typed it, or did you have to read it over again to see?
Posted on 4/28/14 at 1:09 am to glassman
Well, I guess y'all have talked me down a little. I said WTF a few times during that episode and was bordering on pissed. I don't mind deviations, I DO mind deviations that are unnecessary or that take away from the written story. By the time it ended, I was even aggravated by the previews (oh, so now ARYA stabs Sandor? fricking brilliant. 
)
Now that I've had a few minutes to cool down, here are my thoughts:
- I actually liked the exchange with Petyr and Sansa.
- Not thrilled that they are spoon-feeding the Hodors on who was behind the PW, but it was to be expected and done pretty well
- Diana Riggs really was hot in her day! LINK
- I really liked the Margaery and Tommen scene (see, I'm not totally against deviation from the books). It fit well with the story, showed that Tommen was still just a boy and, well, she's sexy as hell! We even got Ser Pounce.
- Cersei's descent has begun. She'll be bat-shite crazy by mid-June.
- The Brienne and Jaime scene was well done. I agree with whoever said that they put him back on his redemption arc.
- That brings me to WTF moment #1. Sorry, but I did not like Locke in place of Vargo Hoat to begin with, so I'm not particularly thrilled with him showing up at the Wall.
- WTF moment #2: Those loser mutineer crows managed to capture TWO direwolves? Really? Give me a fricking break! With that said, IF that was D&D's device to get Bran to Craster's and IF they needed to expand Craster's to show the baby and then the supposed Night's King and IF Coldhands shows up before Jon does, wrecks shite at Craster's and then puts Bran's storyline back on track, then I'll be ok with it. In fact, that will actually be better than Coldhands simply finding the mutineers and killing them in the woods, so strike everything that I said above IF this happens. I do understand that they need to expand on Bran's story to fill in while other parts catch up, but they don't have to show him every episode. We didn't see Arya at all tonight; it's ok to skip POVs sometimes.
- If that was the Night's King, then the show has probably done a better job with the Others than GRRM has to this point. Between this episode and the "always the artists" angle with them displaying the maimed bodies in patterns, they are clearly not mindless monsters. As for the Night's King in the books, they never say that he was killed and the fact that GRRM gave that much detail on his story makes me believe that he is alive and will play a part in TWOW.
- Bloodraven has been cast for this season, but I'm guessing that they only show him in Bran's visions. No way they get Bran all of the way to the cave before next season.
- I'm guessing that we don't get TKOTLT this season, but that would be a great way to add to Bran's time.
- So, if what we saw in the previews was accurate, then Arya stabs Sandor and I suppose she leaves him for dead. Maybe they show that he is still a son of a bitch (like robbing the man who helped them last week), she gets fed up with him and snaps and that begins his redemption arc.
Ok, I know that was long, but it was cathartic. I think I feel better about this episode as long as they end up in the right places and don't deviate TOO far from the books. I'm ok with detours, most of which have been good so far, as long as they stay true to main points of the story.
) Now that I've had a few minutes to cool down, here are my thoughts:
- I actually liked the exchange with Petyr and Sansa.
- Not thrilled that they are spoon-feeding the Hodors on who was behind the PW, but it was to be expected and done pretty well
- Diana Riggs really was hot in her day! LINK
- I really liked the Margaery and Tommen scene (see, I'm not totally against deviation from the books). It fit well with the story, showed that Tommen was still just a boy and, well, she's sexy as hell! We even got Ser Pounce.
- Cersei's descent has begun. She'll be bat-shite crazy by mid-June.
- The Brienne and Jaime scene was well done. I agree with whoever said that they put him back on his redemption arc.
- That brings me to WTF moment #1. Sorry, but I did not like Locke in place of Vargo Hoat to begin with, so I'm not particularly thrilled with him showing up at the Wall.
- WTF moment #2: Those loser mutineer crows managed to capture TWO direwolves? Really? Give me a fricking break! With that said, IF that was D&D's device to get Bran to Craster's and IF they needed to expand Craster's to show the baby and then the supposed Night's King and IF Coldhands shows up before Jon does, wrecks shite at Craster's and then puts Bran's storyline back on track, then I'll be ok with it. In fact, that will actually be better than Coldhands simply finding the mutineers and killing them in the woods, so strike everything that I said above IF this happens. I do understand that they need to expand on Bran's story to fill in while other parts catch up, but they don't have to show him every episode. We didn't see Arya at all tonight; it's ok to skip POVs sometimes.
- If that was the Night's King, then the show has probably done a better job with the Others than GRRM has to this point. Between this episode and the "always the artists" angle with them displaying the maimed bodies in patterns, they are clearly not mindless monsters. As for the Night's King in the books, they never say that he was killed and the fact that GRRM gave that much detail on his story makes me believe that he is alive and will play a part in TWOW.
- Bloodraven has been cast for this season, but I'm guessing that they only show him in Bran's visions. No way they get Bran all of the way to the cave before next season.
- I'm guessing that we don't get TKOTLT this season, but that would be a great way to add to Bran's time.
- So, if what we saw in the previews was accurate, then Arya stabs Sandor and I suppose she leaves him for dead. Maybe they show that he is still a son of a bitch (like robbing the man who helped them last week), she gets fed up with him and snaps and that begins his redemption arc.
Ok, I know that was long, but it was cathartic. I think I feel better about this episode as long as they end up in the right places and don't deviate TOO far from the books. I'm ok with detours, most of which have been good so far, as long as they stay true to main points of the story.
This post was edited on 4/28/14 at 1:12 am
Posted on 4/28/14 at 1:23 am to ffishstik
quote:
I hope they don't do the thing with Arya and her family at the Red Wedding. They're finally about to be reunited!...oh wait, nevermind.
I just want to see SOMETHING good happen to the Starks for once. At least Bran + Jon reunion or Arya + Sansa, if not both.
Ahhh, this is how I felt reading the books, and was always disappointed that they were so close, yet never together.
Maybe the show will change it?
Also, I'm thinking if I'm Dany..... Why Westeros?
Why not just take all of Essos? Looks that Essos has more grand cities and wealth. She has a base already. If the Dothraki can force the city-states into bribes, why can't Dany?
She could not only be Queen of Westeros, but also of Essos as well.
Posted on 4/28/14 at 1:36 am to Napoleon
Potential book reader here:
quick question, how many pages in the book would you guys say one tv episode covers? Nothing too specific, just a rough estimate.
quick question, how many pages in the book would you guys say one tv episode covers? Nothing too specific, just a rough estimate.
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