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re: Foundation (AppleTV+) Season 3 Discussion (spoilers)
Posted on 9/15/25 at 11:50 am to Boss
Posted on 9/15/25 at 11:50 am to Boss
quote:
The thing that confuses me is that the robot on the moon is the same "person" as Kalle in the prime radiant. But she states that it appears they are trying to pull them into the struggle. Was this the robots plan all along; neuter Empire and then come back and take over?
I haven’t read the books either, but something became clear to me over the last few episodes of season 3 - the robots are huge players in just about everything we’ve seen happen.
At first they seemed somewhat ancillary to the story. Flavor for Demerzel’s backstory, more than anything. But in hindsight they’ve been there all along. Kalle (or at least a version of her) was inside the Prime Radiant. We also know that Demerzel had a hand in helping Seldon create the Prime Radiant. Kalle has a conversation with Demerzel (inside the Radiant) and convinces Demerzel that she can get around her programming by postponing the decision of whether to hand Second Foundation over to Empire.
Meanwhile Kalle is also responsible for Seldon getting a new body. And she transported Seldon somewhere - presumably the moon - when he was near the end of his life. When Seldon asks her why they wanted him to have “skin in the game” she responds “because we can’t.”
I think Kalle and the other moon robots have been pulling strings for centuries. The most intriguing question to me is whether Demerzel was a knowing participant in their plan, or whether she really was enslaved by Empire against her will. I may go back and rewatch some of Demerzel’s scenes from the first two seasons (particularly when Day went to the religious planet) because I think there were a lot of anecdotes that may turn out to be pretty important.
Anyhow yes, I do think the robots have been following a plan all along - the end game of which has yet to be revealed.
1
Posted on 9/15/25 at 12:02 pm to Corinthians420
quote:
I actually liked bayta actress
Didn’t she have to transfer bodies though? If so then the Bayta actress would still be good.
Posted on 9/15/25 at 12:21 pm to lostinbr
quote:
he most intriguing question to me is whether Demerzel was a knowing participant in their plan, or whether she really was enslaved by Empire against her will.
I think Demerzel was enslaved. When Kalle and the other robot are talking, one of them said that Demerzel is not supposed ot be able to clasp (presumably because she is enslaved). My question is, is earth still populated with humans? Aside from sea levels receding, it still looked pretty normal and not a barren wasteland. It also didn't look like a Borg style planet that you would think it would become if robots took over it completely.
I really enjoy this show. The only way Pace makes it back on the show is when Dawn grows up. But he would be the last one.
Posted on 9/15/25 at 12:41 pm to wareaglepete
quote:
pretty obvious who the real Mule is.
The camera shots they used were pretty telling to me during the "reveal".
Posted on 9/15/25 at 12:42 pm to RougeDawg
quote:
The camera shots they used were pretty telling to me during the "reveal".
Yes, when watching it, I said, that makes sense and then it went another way.
Something I didn’t realize until today was that they changed the actor playing the mule from last season. I thought it was the same guy.
This post was edited on 9/15/25 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 9/15/25 at 5:45 pm to RougeDawg
quote:
The camera shots they used were pretty telling to me during the "reveal".
Thought the same
Posted on 9/15/25 at 11:04 pm to Boss
And just like with Gaal Dornick, we got a switch for the same damn reasons.
A bit tiresome, even though I do like the actors on the show.
A bit tiresome, even though I do like the actors on the show.
Posted on 9/16/25 at 8:06 am to wareaglepete
quote:
they changed the actor playing the mule from last season. I thought it was the same guy.
Honestly you cant be blamed for that. His face was only shown for like 1 second at the very end of s2
Posted on 9/16/25 at 8:08 am to Corinthians420
Also, for a show this good the m/tv board seems to have no interest. Kinda sucks but I guess it's telling of our times.
I guess they need to cast rachel zegler then the show would get a 300 page thread ''
I guess they need to cast rachel zegler then the show would get a 300 page thread ''
This post was edited on 9/16/25 at 8:10 am
Posted on 9/16/25 at 12:13 pm to Boss
It sure sounded like Pace was the voice of the "other" male robot.
Posted on 9/16/25 at 12:48 pm to A12 Oxcart
You’re right. It’s definitely his voice. Just rewatched that scene.
Posted on 9/16/25 at 3:05 pm to Boss
wait, i didn't notice that. so are the implications that pace "clasped" with the robot skull he was fixing earlier in the episode before he went to the nursery?
Posted on 9/16/25 at 3:25 pm to Corinthians420
I just think it opens the door to the fact that Cleon I might have been engineered by robots to begin with based off a robot.
Posted on 9/16/25 at 3:33 pm to Corinthians420
quote:
wait, i didn't notice that. so are the implications that pace "clasped" with the robot skull he was fixing earlier in the episode before he went to the nursery?
I think the implication is Apple didn’t want to pay a new guy for a single line, so they just got Pace to do it. Similar to how that Danish actor was a stand-in for the Mule before they hired Euron.
Posted on 9/16/25 at 4:06 pm to Esquire
Probably.
Does the season finale deserve an emmy?
Terrence Mann absolutely does.
Does the season finale deserve an emmy?
Terrence Mann absolutely does.
Posted on 9/18/25 at 4:42 pm to Corinthians420
Terrance Mann is, um, er, the man.
Anyway, someone asked:
Not so in the books but this show is waaaay beyond the books. I mean, a very old and multi-times rebuilt Daneel is there at the end in “Foundation and Earth.”
I so wished they had started this series with the two Elijah Baley mysteries - with Daneel. It would make SOOOO much more sense if they had and would make for great drama.
I highly encourage those who haven’t read all the books to go back and do so - but start with I, Robot, then the Baley books (Caves of Steel and The Naked Sun) first before diving into the Robot, Empire, and Foundation ones. They all connect over time.
Anyway, someone asked:
quote:
My question is, is earth still populated with humans?
Not so in the books but this show is waaaay beyond the books. I mean, a very old and multi-times rebuilt Daneel is there at the end in “Foundation and Earth.”
I so wished they had started this series with the two Elijah Baley mysteries - with Daneel. It would make SOOOO much more sense if they had and would make for great drama.
I highly encourage those who haven’t read all the books to go back and do so - but start with I, Robot, then the Baley books (Caves of Steel and The Naked Sun) first before diving into the Robot, Empire, and Foundation ones. They all connect over time.
This post was edited on 9/18/25 at 4:43 pm
Posted on 9/18/25 at 4:52 pm to Bham4Tide
Your post reminded me that I had just read an article today about this. It turns out the reason there aren’t more Robot references in Foundation is because Fox owns the rights to the Robot series. Here are some quotes from Goyer about including them in season 3.
Full Slashfilm Article
quote:
"When we were first approached to do 'Foundation,' we were given a document that outlined the characters that we had exclusive rights to," co-creator and showrunner David S. Goyer told /Film ahead of the release of the "Foundation" season 3 finale.
"They said that we could reference Demerzel's backstory as a generalization, but we couldn't use the character Daneel and we couldn't name some of the characters from 'I, Robot' by name."
quote:
When Goyer found out he didn't have full access to the entirety of the IP, he found a workaround. "We'll be a little coy with some of these references to her in the past," Goyer said, acknowledging that they'd just allude to Demerzel's story but not mention anyone by name, specifically R. Daneel Olivaw, the name Demerzel used to go by before the Robot Wars, as it belonged to the "Robot" series with the rights owned by Fox. But everything changed thanks to a little movie about the baby antichrist.
Goyer was a producer on "The Omen" prequel movie "The First Omen," which was made at Fox. According to the showrunner, he was doing the sound mix for the movie when the head of Fox, Steve Asbell, showed up. And it just so happened Asbell was a fan of "Foundation."
"I said, 'You know, you could help me out here. You could give us a one-time allowance to mention the character of Daneel in season 3 and, for the fans, tie that officially back in,'" Goyer continued. "So he had the business affairs department at Fox do just that and give us permission to do it. But it was a lucky happenstance, because I literally happened to be in a room with the head of Fox, and he was a fan of the show, and sometimes that synchronicity in Hollywood works to your benefit.
Full Slashfilm Article
Posted on 9/18/25 at 5:08 pm to Esquire
Wow. I didn’t know that story.
I wonder if they could’ve bought the rights? It would be such a huge massive story if they have them, it would bring so much more depth and understanding to everything.
No robot series, huh?I don’t think I’ve ever heard the word positronic either.
I wish they had never brought up Daneel.
I wonder if they could’ve bought the rights? It would be such a huge massive story if they have them, it would bring so much more depth and understanding to everything.
No robot series, huh?I don’t think I’ve ever heard the word positronic either.
I wish they had never brought up Daneel.
Posted on 9/18/25 at 5:19 pm to Esquire
thanks for the article Esquire 
yeah it would have been cool if they couldve included more but I'm happy with what Goyer was able to do.
really hope the new staff can keep it going strong
Don't ask Joe Dirt's dad
yeah it would have been cool if they couldve included more but I'm happy with what Goyer was able to do.
really hope the new staff can keep it going strong
quote:
I don’t think I’ve ever heard the word positronic either.
Don't ask Joe Dirt's dad
Posted on 9/18/25 at 6:35 pm to Corinthians420
quote:
Also, for a show this good the m/tv board seems to have no interest. Kinda sucks but I guess it's telling of our times. I guess they need to cast rachel zegler then the show would get a 300 page thread ''
I just don’t like it. My favorite shows right now are Terminal: Dark Wolf and Chief of War.
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