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Message
re: Dark S3 Discussion (spoilers after OP)
Posted on 7/1/20 at 4:56 am to LSUJuice
Posted on 7/1/20 at 4:56 am to LSUJuice
quote:
Claudia vanishes because she uses the split second loophole to "copy" herself so she talk to Adam. Remember, Adam was like WTF when she appeared because she was supposed to have been killed by Noah like always, which she was. So it was her loophole copy that vanished.
No she didn’t use a split second loophole. The loophole was only at the point in time when the Origin World split into 2 different worlds. That loophole was what allowed Jonas and Mirror world Martha to travel to Origin World.
Claudia had an awakening along the way but keep playing the game. She literally explained this to Adam in the final scene she was in with Adam. At no point did she suggest she used a loophole.
As to her vanishing, the two alternate worlds vanished entirely. So the scenes showing characters vanishing are attributed to the fact that everyone in those worlds vanished. Jonas and Martha vanishing in the Origin World was the same reason.
I hope this helps clarify that for you.
2
Posted on 7/1/20 at 7:13 am to rebeloke
I'm rewatching this week, but not quite to the end yet. I think I had read that somewhere about Claudia but I guess that was wrong... either way, Regina is alive and well in the original world, and all the other characters that rely on time travel for their existence are not.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 7:16 am to MaroonWhite
quote:
I thought it was good although some of the storylines seemed pretty covoluted compared to the first two seasons. I really likes the final ending.
Pretty much how I felt. I think the ending of season 2, introducing other world Martha, really was the beginning of all the problems I had with season 3.
The first two seasons were confusing, but if you pay attention, you can follow along with everything that is happening. Season 3, there is so much shite going on, it’s really a problem.
I was annoyed at all the different versions of characters telling Jonas and Martha, “believe me, this is how we change things, or end things”. Character motivations and who they were working for was a chore to follow.
It didn’t take long into season 3 for me to realize, “oh right, this is why time travel alt/parallel/multiple worlds and timelines stuff is nonsense”. You can tell an interesting story, but when it’s time to start trying to have shite make sense, it kind of always falls apart.
I thought the finale as a stand-alone was in general a great episode of television, but as the ending of the story, I didn’t really care for having this lower level character be the reason for the entire story.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 7:45 am to LSUJuice
quote:
and all the other characters that rely on time travel for their existence are not.
I think that’s an assumption they want you to believe.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 10:25 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I think that’s an assumption they want you to believe.
It’s literally what happened on the show. The two worlds were only created because of the clockmaker. Everyone who only existed in relation to Mikkel, Adam, and Eve, they all are gone.
Did they ever explain why all the time travel stuff started in Jonas and Martha’s worlds? It started with Mads being kidnapped, but I think Noah was responsible for that, and he only existed because of the time travel.
Or did those worlds just spring up immediately to that moment, and the rest of those worlds future and past where built from there? Man this is why I hate time travel shite.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 11:55 am to landrywasbeast30
Just b/c that's the only people they show, doens't mean that's the only people alive in this world.
I'm not saying my theory is right. i just think this show wants you to think of all the possibilities, and purposely leaves it open for interpretation. There's a reason Katherina says she wishes for no more Winden. There's a reason Hannah had a dream of the apocalypse, and a reason she had deja vu looking at the yellow raincoat. And there's a reason she said she'd thought Jonas was a good name and the show ended abrubtly after her saying that. I don't interpret all of that as everything is back to normal now.
Hannah is a crazy slut in every world. Just b/c she was with Torban at the table doesn't mean that's his baby in her belly. At no point has she ever given us reason to believe she's a good wife, or person for that matter. Maybe that issue with the electricity at the end was the creation of the god particle b/c someone else was doing some experiment near the nuclear power plant. That originally happened in 86, and it's likely the year 2000 based on the song being played at the table. They made it a point to say that everything that happens, will always happen. Maybe not at the same time in every world/dimension, but it will happen and everyones fate will have the same outcome.
I'm not saying my theory is right. i just think this show wants you to think of all the possibilities, and purposely leaves it open for interpretation. There's a reason Katherina says she wishes for no more Winden. There's a reason Hannah had a dream of the apocalypse, and a reason she had deja vu looking at the yellow raincoat. And there's a reason she said she'd thought Jonas was a good name and the show ended abrubtly after her saying that. I don't interpret all of that as everything is back to normal now.
Hannah is a crazy slut in every world. Just b/c she was with Torban at the table doesn't mean that's his baby in her belly. At no point has she ever given us reason to believe she's a good wife, or person for that matter. Maybe that issue with the electricity at the end was the creation of the god particle b/c someone else was doing some experiment near the nuclear power plant. That originally happened in 86, and it's likely the year 2000 based on the song being played at the table. They made it a point to say that everything that happens, will always happen. Maybe not at the same time in every world/dimension, but it will happen and everyones fate will have the same outcome.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 3:51 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Just b/c that's the only people they show, doens't mean that's the only people alive in this world.
Of all the confusing shite on this show, this was one of the things that they literally held our hands and guided us through with the explanation. It couldn’t have been more clear.
quote:
They made it a point to say that everything that happens, will always happen. Maybe not at the same time in every world/dimension, but it will happen and everyones fate will have the same outcome.
Yes, in the two new worlds that don’t actually exist, where things just keep repeating because no one knew what was going on until Claudia figured it out. The same Claudia that the writers gave a very long, detailed monologue that very much says you are wrong.
Your theory being true would completely shite on everything that happened in the last episode.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 5:00 pm to landrywasbeast30
Still makes no sense to me that Claudia vanished. What was the point of showing that? They didn't show anyone else vanish other than all of the Jonas and Martha's. Although they did show the "family tree and knot" vanishing, although not everything on it was vanishing.
Posted on 7/1/20 at 6:56 pm to rebeloke
A couple questions:
How did Hannah get from 1954 after banging Egon to 1911? She only has the device that can travel in 33 year increments. She said an old woman visited her, so was that old Claudia from Eva's world who helped her using the round device?
How the hell did Helge actually get laid?
Claudia literally says, "She (Eva) uses the loophole to send her younger self off in one direction or another, in order to preserve the cycle. And I used it to send myself in another direction, too: to be here today."
How did Hannah get from 1954 after banging Egon to 1911? She only has the device that can travel in 33 year increments. She said an old woman visited her, so was that old Claudia from Eva's world who helped her using the round device?
How the hell did Helge actually get laid?
quote:
At no point did she suggest she used a loophole.
Claudia literally says, "She (Eva) uses the loophole to send her younger self off in one direction or another, in order to preserve the cycle. And I used it to send myself in another direction, too: to be here today."
This post was edited on 7/1/20 at 10:17 pm
Posted on 7/1/20 at 10:41 pm to Lou Pai
I’m like 4 episodes in would like to discuss but afraid of spoilers. Do they have episode discussion or is it spoilers for whole season everywhere?
Posted on 7/1/20 at 11:13 pm to LSUJuice
Spoilers.
Only gotcha moment they missed is season 3 that would have satisfied the viewers is a scene where Jonas gets deformed to become Adam. Obviously they make the point in the early 1900s Jonas experimenting with radioactive shite without good protection was going catch up with him.
The other detail that is glossed over is Bernd Doppler is Regina's father thus not a paradox. So obviously Claudia can't be a paradox, so I guess the one disappearing must have been a traveler version?
Only gotcha moment they missed is season 3 that would have satisfied the viewers is a scene where Jonas gets deformed to become Adam. Obviously they make the point in the early 1900s Jonas experimenting with radioactive shite without good protection was going catch up with him.
The other detail that is glossed over is Bernd Doppler is Regina's father thus not a paradox. So obviously Claudia can't be a paradox, so I guess the one disappearing must have been a traveler version?
Posted on 7/2/20 at 1:08 am to Lou Pai
I thought Season 3 was good and am satisfied with the ending. The ending din't register as an all time great but I felt it was a good conclusion to one of the best shows I have seen in years.
I felt so bad for Ulric, his story line really drove home the stranded in time aspect of the show.
I felt so bad for Ulric, his story line really drove home the stranded in time aspect of the show.
Posted on 7/2/20 at 7:37 am to tigervet4
quote:
I felt so bad for Ulric, his story line really drove home the stranded in time aspect of the show.
That scene with Katharina
I was rooting for Ulrich to have some sort of happy ending, dude got slammed on every season.
Posted on 7/2/20 at 8:31 am to LSUJuice
quote:
Claudia literally says, "She (Eva) uses the loophole to send her younger self off in one direction or another, in order to preserve the cycle. And I used it to send myself in another direction, too: to be here today."
The confusion comes from the use of the word ‘loophole.’ There are actually two loopholes that exist: 1) the loophole created by the 2 Apocalypses; and 2) the loophole of the point in time when the Origin World split in two. I am glad we clarified the two distinct sets of loopholes. Good catch, about the reference to the other loophole. When I made my previous comment I was referencing the other loophole that Jonas and Mirror Martha used.
Now as to you question about how Hannah got back to 1911?
You make a good point but I would say yes Martha used the Mirror World orb to do so, which explains why Adam killed her because she was stuck there with them.
As far as how Helge get laid?
As a Doppler... He was rich... but in Jonas world he was mangled as a child but in the Mirror world he was mangled as an adult. As a child it was normalized as a part of who he was, not to mention marriages in wealthy circles are practically arranged but in Dark they are often orchestrated.
Posted on 7/2/20 at 8:57 am to rebeloke
quote:
As far as how Helge get laid?
As a Doppler..
Helge wasn't a Doppler. Yeah he grew up Doppler, but he wasn't, as Greta said she didn't think that was Bernd's son.
Claudia never married, and Bernd was married to Greta, yet Regina came from Bernd and Claudia.
I think it's just an assumption that Helge is Peter's biological father. Odd that Bernd had photo's of Helge in his office, but not his grandson Peter.
Posted on 7/2/20 at 9:02 am to landrywasbeast30
quote:
Your theory being true would completely shite on everything that happened in the last episode.
if it had ended with Jonas and Martha vanishing, then yes. But what was the point of the dinner and all the coincidences (no more winden, yellow raincoat, apocalypse dream, jonas, Torban's eye)? The dinner did not make me feel everything was back to normal, like the ending of all the Jonas and Martha's vanishing did.
Posted on 7/2/20 at 9:32 am to rebeloke
As far as Helge goes, I read a theory that Bernd probably just got him a prostitute at some point.
I think my main confusion still lies with Claudia, and when she actually broke from the cycle. Was she planting breadcrumbs for each iteration of herself to find and build on? She says to jonas that you can change the little things. But if that's the case, I really would have liked to have seen it. It would have been compelling to see the little traces she left.
This link disagrees though, and theorizes that she never did anything different. It's a deep dive, so fair warning:
Reddit deep dive and questions answered
I think my main confusion still lies with Claudia, and when she actually broke from the cycle. Was she planting breadcrumbs for each iteration of herself to find and build on? She says to jonas that you can change the little things. But if that's the case, I really would have liked to have seen it. It would have been compelling to see the little traces she left.
This link disagrees though, and theorizes that she never did anything different. It's a deep dive, so fair warning:
Reddit deep dive and questions answered
quote:
By taking advantage of the moment when time stops, Claudia creates her own parallel reality. She has a conversation with Adam and says that it is happening for the first time, and we can't really blame her for thinking so because from her perspective that's true. But remember, this conversation with Adam is both happening AND not happening. In her "new" reality, she enlightens Adam on how Jonas and Martha can finally untie the knot. But in her other reality, she never has this conversation at all.
quote:
We don't get to see the end of this reality, but Eva tells us that Adam kills her and her body is found by her younger self. From here we can presume the rest of the events of the loop play out and restart as usual. What we DO see, however, is Claudia's new parallel reality play out. Adam teaches Jonas about the loophole, Jonas saves alt-Martha, they travel to the origin world. Just like when alt-Martha saved Jonas AND didn't save Jonas, Claudia had her conversation with Adam AND didn't have her conversation with Adam. Once again, both of these things happen and from a perspective of nonlinear time, have always happened. There is now a reality where the loop cycles on like usual, AND there is a reality where the loop is interrupted by Jonas and Martha's journey to the origin world. With me so far?
Posted on 7/2/20 at 9:57 am to LSUJuice
quote:
I think my main confusion still lies with Claudia, and when she actually broke from the cycle.
I think the change came when she shot the mirror world version of herself. But you are right, they should have gotten into this more. The journey of her figuring everything out isn’t shown at all.
quote:
We don't get to see the end of this reality, but Eva tells us that Adam kills her and her body is found by her younger self. From here we can presume the rest of the events of the loop play out and restart as usual. What we DO see, however, is Claudia's new parallel reality play out. Adam teaches Jonas about the loophole, Jonas saves alt-Martha, they travel to the origin world. Just like when alt-Martha saved Jonas AND didn't save Jonas, Claudia had her conversation with Adam AND didn't have her conversation with Adam. Once again, both of these things happen and from a perspective of nonlinear time, have always happened. There is now a reality where the loop cycles on like usual, AND there is a reality where the loop is interrupted by Jonas and Martha's journey to the origin world. With me so far?
This right here is why time travel stuff is so annoying.
Posted on 7/2/20 at 10:26 am to ClampClampington
quote:
That scene with Katharina
This part blew my mind. She became the “body at the bottom of the lake” legend that Magnus and Bartosz were using to scare Martha.
Posted on 7/2/20 at 11:18 am to Decatur
Yeah the real allure of this show to me became the characters. You really feel for all of them, their losses and tragedies. The montages that put together old/young versions of each character are amazingly done. And then when you finally see the conclusion of each person's story, most are truly tragic (and violent) because we realize they don't belong on that world. Katharina and the St Christopher medal, holy shite. And seeing what Elisabeth went through to become who she was, damn.
Edit to add: this is somewhat where season 3 fell a bit short for me compared with the first two. While it was amazing to see some of these conclusions to the characters in the world we're familiar with, I never really cared for the alt world versions. Ulrich's parallel story was compelling, but I just never had time to care for the other alt versions.
Edit to add: this is somewhat where season 3 fell a bit short for me compared with the first two. While it was amazing to see some of these conclusions to the characters in the world we're familiar with, I never really cared for the alt world versions. Ulrich's parallel story was compelling, but I just never had time to care for the other alt versions.
This post was edited on 7/2/20 at 11:23 am
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