re: Batman V Superman Budget is Reportedly Over 400 Million. Plus New Images

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D.C. just doesn't have the potential of Marvel properties. I get that they want to act like they do - because attitude counts for a lot.

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That's bullshite. Batman has ruled the movies for two separate series and he's already being called the best thing in this new movie (with a series of his own to follow).

Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four just shite the bed. Do you think that's because Marvel's two top-tier comic franchises have no potential?

Batman V Superman will be fine (though few in here will admit to it after they've dogged it from day one). Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman look great. DC will have hits and misses because they're going the FOX route of mixing it up with directors and franchise direction. Marvel/Disney will maintain the status quo and put out their set product.

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Marvel pushed the deeper stories and more complex characters earlier and more broadly. The D.C. standard bearers are Superman and Batman. Beyond that, Wonder Woman might be their strong third. Green Lantern, Flash and the other down roster JLers tend to have cultish/niche followings.

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Wonder Woman might be? She's a bigger icon than any Marvel character.

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Marvel has 3 giant team properties (Avengers, X-Men, FF) - and tons of popular individual heroes. Other than various efforts for Supes or Batman, Marvel has gotten in front, quickly, tied their films together and, regardless of how effed up I think the stories are, they've marketed/messaged their cinematic universe in a way that will be studied until the end of film.

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You realize that the general public had no clue as to what an Iron Man was before that movie, right? Aquaman had bigger name recognition prior to Favreau's movie.

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As an example, an underrated comic film (at least IMHO) is The Watchmen. Does any casual fan even know that's a D.C. product? Heck, I have to remind myself and I was a D.C. guy first, although I read, pretty much everything in the 1970s.

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Who cares if no one knows that Watchmen was a DC property? It should never be touched by the DCU or crossed over into anything other than its own universe.

I have no problems with some of the criticism leveled at this unseen film... that is natural for a big, epic franchise film that has undergone changes since its inception. I will still say that the epic, emo- bitching about it seems on par with a woman de-constructing the Kardashians. Hope its a great film... but the comments should best be left to the teenagers to read. I'll find out and make up my mind when I see it.

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Spider Man? No argument. He and the Hulk are probably the top two Marvel properties IMO.

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Thanks to the 60's Spider-Man cartoon and the Electric Company... and the Hulk TV series... those are the two characters that have been ingrained into pop-culture for half a century.

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They have made Iron Man and especially Captain America much bigger than they were before these movies started coming out.

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Right - they have these - difficult to call Captain America mid-tier, but let's say further down-market of the top tier - "lesser elites" for lack of a better term setting box office records.

I'm not dogging or getting into a D.C./Marvel pissing contest on the comic side. I said "potential" and maybe I should have said "demonstrated" potential.

D.C. has had some big hits with Batman films since Chris Reeves was Superman. They have these iconic - genre/generation spanning heroes and it is a no-brainer - there is almost no way to fail with Batman. Yet when they put Superman up - they got kind of a collective "meh." Good, but not great. Hell, MCU is making money off THOR. They're making money off Hawkeye and Black Widow - when D.C. couldn't make a blockbuster out of the Supes reboot.

Maybe they're learning as they go. But, my point is - even with one hand tied behind their back - with Spidey/FF/X-Men out of their hands - for the moment - Marvel has made a shite ton of lemonade.

Pure potential - maybe D.C. still has the edge there. So, perhaps I should have used "demonstrated potential."

- I mean, we're not seriously debating that the MCU has or has not kicked the shite out of D.C. when they most definitely have, right? With practically nothing - the Avengers, basically.

Completely agree. It has Batman in it, so that's almost a guarantee it'll do a billion. The question will be how will fans/critics react to it? And will it get people excited for the future of the DCCU.

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I'll be shocked if this doesn't cross $1 billion. The word of mouth will have to be trash for that to happen and this will have to get slammed in the weeks leading up to the release.

I don't see that happening.

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Going by the level of obsession on this board I'd say that the movie will do fine.

Here's the thing. I think what the MOS and Superman vs Batman movies are trying to do actually is interesting and may demonstrate they are learning from and adapting in the face of the Marvel model of success. They are trying to tell interesting versions of the Batman and Superman stories that add complexity, motivation, and fallibility in modernly relevant ways.

If they actually succeed in doing this in a way that builds interest in the Wonder Woman character they might even find themselves on firmer footing than the MCU after a lesser Ultron effort. The Civil War storyline is excellent from what I've read - but if you mishandle it then you end up with a trash product and angry geeks ranting.

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Going by the level of obsession on this board I'd say that the movie will do fine.

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I think the only people not seeing this will be like Carson and Bateman. Most everyone else is going to see this.

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I think what the MOS and Superman vs Batman movies are trying to do actually is interesting and may demonstrate they are learning from and adapting in the face of the Marvel model of success. They are trying to tell interesting versions of the Batman and Superman stories that add complexity, motivation, and fallibility in modernly relevant ways.

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Fair enough and I conceded that they may be learning as they go. I'm just at a loss to explain the Snyder Superman film - I'm a Superman fan - I liked it, didn't love it. I see where they're trying to go, but I question Affleck - set aside for a moment that he's really hit and miss as an actor - the salary he's going to command if it's successful - you're almost in a "can't win" with him as the new face. But, a "World's Finest" story does make sense to launch into a Justice League film - and I guess they're going to make Wonder Woman in the meantime.

I wish them the best but they just have a deep hole to climb out of, IMHO.