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Band of Brothers question: Crossroads - what was the point of the smoke grenade?
Posted on 9/17/21 at 10:22 am
Posted on 9/17/21 at 10:22 am
I think I read the Ambrose book once a long time ago but can't recall if they addressed it.
the scene
Saw an old interview with Major Winters and it did happen this away, even the German soldier incredulously smiling at him before getting shot. But I never understood the strategic point of the rest of the soldiers waiting for the smoke grenade to signal their assault as Winters ran on ahead solo. The only thing I could think of is it would catch the Germans off guard with 1 man standing there taking shots at them before the rest of the men showed up. Seems like a risky thing for Winters to take on, but the real life Popeye said in an interview that Winters was constantly doing that, never gave it a second thought being at the front of an advance.
ETA Winters interview
the scene
Saw an old interview with Major Winters and it did happen this away, even the German soldier incredulously smiling at him before getting shot. But I never understood the strategic point of the rest of the soldiers waiting for the smoke grenade to signal their assault as Winters ran on ahead solo. The only thing I could think of is it would catch the Germans off guard with 1 man standing there taking shots at them before the rest of the men showed up. Seems like a risky thing for Winters to take on, but the real life Popeye said in an interview that Winters was constantly doing that, never gave it a second thought being at the front of an advance.
ETA Winters interview
This post was edited on 9/17/21 at 10:25 am
10
Posted on 9/17/21 at 10:31 am to sicboy
Maybe a visual signal for the entire group to move forward. Any kind of verbal command would alert opposing forces of an assault.
Posted on 9/17/21 at 10:33 am to sicboy
For some reason, I always thought he did it so that way if he saw they were fricked there might be a way to signal them to retreat
But now that I think about it, probably not plausible to make 200 troops stop haul assing across a giant field just because one guy is screaming, even if it is the CO
But now that I think about it, probably not plausible to make 200 troops stop haul assing across a giant field just because one guy is screaming, even if it is the CO
Posted on 9/17/21 at 10:40 am to StealthCalais11
quote:
Maybe a visual signal for the entire group to move forward.
That's what it was, but why did he go alone to start the assault? That's my main question. Wouldn't it have been just as effective if they all went at the same time?
This post was edited on 9/17/21 at 10:41 am
Posted on 9/17/21 at 10:41 am to sicboy
I thought the smoke grenade misfired a delay and his solo charge was an accident
Posted on 9/17/21 at 10:44 am to OWLFAN86
quote:
I thought the smoke grenade misfired a delay and his solo charge was an accident
But even without the delay, he still instructed them to follow him after he went in by himself. I'm not getting what strategic value that had. Even if the smoke grenade went off when it should have, Winters was still ahead of everyone else.
Posted on 9/17/21 at 11:24 am to sicboy
I always figured he didn't want to expose his men unnecessarily. But it may have also been to sow confusion - the Germans would have first thought - "oh, one guy" then a group shows up and starts blasting. The Germans have no idea how many are showing up and if its an attack.
Basically they took out a much superior force because of the surprise and confusion on the German side.
Basically they took out a much superior force because of the surprise and confusion on the German side.
Posted on 9/17/21 at 12:30 pm to sicboy
Visual signal for the entire line to run. Winters just didn't wait for it to fire. He threw it and then ran. It was a mistake on him to not visually verify the signal.
That's how I understood it from watching the scene.
That's how I understood it from watching the scene.
Posted on 9/17/21 at 12:31 pm to OWLFAN86
quote:
I thought the smoke grenade misfired a delay and his solo charge was an accident
That is what I thought too.
Posted on 9/17/21 at 3:59 pm to Trauma14
I thought his instructions was to delay because they did not know the force strength he was attacking. He was going ahead to signal to the rest of the company if there was a strong counter attack. He was the canary in the canal. The smoke was to hide the numbers of the company advancing and if they had to retreat, it was giving them some concealment. I do not think Winters thought the Germans would leave their flank unguarded like they did...
This post was edited on 9/17/21 at 4:02 pm
Posted on 9/17/21 at 5:20 pm to sicboy
You have to watch the YouTube video interview if Winters regarding this firefight. It was supposed to be a signal for the the entire company to move. Winters explained that his adrenaline made him run and react faster than he ever had before. The company reacted slow (per his observation ). He also felt the Germans reacted even slower. As a result he single handedly took them by surprise , shooting 10 or so before anyone even fired at him. He had close to 20 on the ground and twice that surrendering by the time the company got into a firing position. There is a lot of talk about awarding him a MOH posthumously for his actions on this day.
FYI—His Breccort Manor interview is even better. The Germans almost wiped out D company during their assault , which preceded the E company assault. D tried a frontal assault against 70-80 Germans. Winters flanked them and essentially took them on one at a time as the guys worked through the trench.
FYI—His Breccort Manor interview is even better. The Germans almost wiped out D company during their assault , which preceded the E company assault. D tried a frontal assault against 70-80 Germans. Winters flanked them and essentially took them on one at a time as the guys worked through the trench.
Posted on 9/17/21 at 5:20 pm to sicboy
I assumed it was for cover going forward or if they had to retreat. They were in the open.
Posted on 9/17/21 at 6:05 pm to Cdawg
You pop smoke either for a signal for the LZ (obviously not really applicable for WW2) or for a signal to the unit. It's also used commonly for concealment, either during and advance or a retreat.
Posted on 9/17/21 at 6:25 pm to michael corleone
Winters should have won the Medal of Honor for his exploits on D-Day but because of the Army's stupid policy of only being allowed to award one Medal of Honor per regiment, he was "relegated" to being awarded the Distinguished Service Cross - the Army's highest decoration for heroism.
Posted on 9/17/21 at 9:42 pm to sicboy
If the German position was expecting an attack his men wouldn't have ran into an ambush. Winters would have been shot but not his men. Or he would have fallen back if they didn't fire in anticipation of a larger group.
Posted on 9/18/21 at 5:27 am to sicboy
I always thought he did it that way because Winters thought they were caught in the open and that they’d be slaughtered. Rather than watch his men get slaughtered or at least give them an idea of enemy strength by sacrificing himself, he went alone, first.
Posted on 9/18/21 at 11:49 am to sicboy
Well I suppose it’s been long enough since my last band of brothers rewatch….
Posted on 9/18/21 at 1:16 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Winters should have won the Medal of Honor for his exploits on D-Day but because of the Army's stupid policy of only being allowed to award one Medal of Honor per regiment, he was "relegated" to being awarded the Distinguished Service Cross - the Army's highest decoration for heroism.
There are lot of Silver Star and Service Cross recipients who would seem to be worthy of a Medal of Honor but for some reason didn’t receive it.
This is not to disparage the actual MoH recipients, but functionally, it’s a propaganda award. You award a honoree and the honoree goes home and drums up support for continuing the war effort. That is to say, MoH honorees were chosen as much for their bravery as for their usefulness as heroic avatars for the folks back home.
Posted on 9/18/21 at 1:22 pm to sicboy
I always assumed he was just amped up and excited and didn’t wait for the smoke. He threw it and took off because he couldn’t wait to execute his plan
Posted on 9/18/21 at 3:08 pm to UndercoverBryologist
quote:you watched the Pacific and assume all MoH are the same
This is not to disparage the actual MoH recipients, but functionally, it’s a propaganda award. You award a honoree and the honoree goes home and drums up support for continuing the war effort. That is to say, MoH honorees were chosen as much for their bravery as for their usefulness as heroic avatars for the folks back home.
Receiving the Medal of Honor is the highest honor bestowed by the American Military and personally presented by the President of the United States. Because of the need for accuracy the recommendation process can take in excess of 18 months with intense scrutiny every step of the way
This post was edited on 9/18/21 at 3:10 pm
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