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re: National's decision to shut down Strasburg
Posted on 10/11/12 at 3:10 am to benhamin5555
Posted on 10/11/12 at 3:10 am to benhamin5555
anything looks bad after an 8-0 loss and a 2-1 deficit 
1
Posted on 10/11/12 at 3:46 am to benhamin5555
quote:......is the reason why I'm rooting for the Nationals to bow out in the first round. They had so many different options on how to properly use Strasburg if they were worried about the innings that would've allowed him to pitch in the postseason. Now I'm rooting for them to lose in the most agonizing way possible so that even more attention can be brought upon their idiotic processes.
National's decision to shut down Strasburg
Posted on 10/11/12 at 4:10 am to Roughneck
If you want to criticize the nationals then criticize them for starting him early because once he hit his inning limit they made the right call based on the info they had. He's never even remotely approached 160 innings pitched in his career much less after tommy John surgery. He'd be at a career high of IP by almost 80-100 at this point in the season. I feel fairly confident that he would have started to fade.
So starting him late or in the bull pen. The nats won 10 of 12 for strasburgs first 12 starts through mid June. Replace him with a AAA starter and that's easyily a 5 game swing. He helped build there momentum so you really don't know if they would have won the division without him starting the season.
Also no one knew the nats would be this good so all these talking heads have the benefit of hindsight.
Hamels 2008 season is a terrible example, he pitched 180+ innings the year before and wasn't coming off TJ surgery.
So starting him late or in the bull pen. The nats won 10 of 12 for strasburgs first 12 starts through mid June. Replace him with a AAA starter and that's easyily a 5 game swing. He helped build there momentum so you really don't know if they would have won the division without him starting the season.
Also no one knew the nats would be this good so all these talking heads have the benefit of hindsight.
Hamels 2008 season is a terrible example, he pitched 180+ innings the year before and wasn't coming off TJ surgery.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 4:13 am to Roughneck
quote:
They had so many different options on how to properly use Strasburg if they were worried about the innings that would've allowed him to pitch in the postseason. Now I'm rooting for them to lose in the most agonizing way possible so that even more attention can be brought upon their idiotic processes.
If I was a veteran on that team, I would be pissed. Maybe they can wait another 80+ years for the next playoff game in Washington.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 4:15 am to barry
quote:
If you want to criticize the nationals then criticize them for starting him early because once he hit his inning limit they made the right call based on the info they had. He's never even remotely approached 160 innings pitched in his career much less after tommy John surgery. He'd be at a career high of IP by almost 80-100 at this point in the season. I feel fairly confident that he would have started to fade.
So starting him late or in the bull pen. The nats won 10 of 12 for strasburgs first 12 starts through mid June. Replace him with a AAA starter and that's easyily a 5 game swing. He helped build there momentum so you really don't know if they would have won the division without him starting the season.
Also no one knew the nats would be this good so all these talking heads have the benefit of hindsight.
Hamels 2008 season is a terrible example, he pitched 180+ innings the year before and wasn't coming off TJ surgery.
There were many different approaches an they picked the worst possible one.
This post was edited on 10/11/12 at 4:16 am
Posted on 10/11/12 at 5:58 am to VerlanderBEAST
I agree with the "start his season later" approach.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 6:05 am to gthog61
Ah you and the others are using the Goodell approach, I see. Do you have years of research to back what you agree with?
No one is pissed about the Cubs decision to shut down Samardja.
No one is pissed about the Cubs decision to shut down Samardja.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 6:09 am to staugslugga
Meh Cards won last year without their "ace" in Wainwright...
Nats have 4 other pitchers who pitched extremely well in the regular season and Zimmerman/Gio were both in CY Young conversations this season. Having Strasburg would be nice but still not a guaranteed victory any more than what they are trotting out. It isn't like they benched him for some scrub fringe player.
Nats have 4 other pitchers who pitched extremely well in the regular season and Zimmerman/Gio were both in CY Young conversations this season. Having Strasburg would be nice but still not a guaranteed victory any more than what they are trotting out. It isn't like they benched him for some scrub fringe player.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 6:12 am to TDawg1313
quote:
I saw that there was a pitcher on Atlanta that was in the same situation as Strasburg. What Atlanta did though was start him in the bullpen, then move him to the rotation so they could use him the whole year. I forgot his name and someone can correct me if i'm wrong, but that seemed like a much better strategy.
Freddy deserves no credit for that, the only reason Medlen wasn't starting earlier because he thought others were better pitchers.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 7:06 am to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
The problem with this whole debate is that everyone will try to justify their decision with hindsight if the Nationals lose
There is no hindsight here. Anyone with any sense was first guessing this horrible move and the Nats are getting exactly what they deserve.
quote:
The fact of the matter is that there is no one correct answer to this question
There is definitely a wrong one and it's the one the Nats chose.
I would be livid if I were a player/fan/season ticket holder.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 7:11 am to barry
quote:but they would not have replaced him with just any triple a pitcher, he would have been replaced by a guy who went 10-13 with a 3.70 ERA last year, that is above average numbers even though they are not Strasburg levels.
So starting him late or in the bull pen. The nats won 10 of 12 for strasburgs first 12 starts through mid June. Replace him with a AAA starter and that's easyily a 5 game swing. He helped build there momentum so you really don't know if they would have won the division without him starting the season.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 7:14 am to tduecen
As a Physical Therapist, I'm glad they didn't wreck his arm. But like others have said there were many different options that could've worked better for them. I personally like the build slow method throughout the year.
I am wondering however, if this protocol they have established called for a certain amount of rest AFTER the season. Maybe they didn't want him pitching all the way into October/November and then starting again in ST...hence shutting him down early.
I am wondering however, if this protocol they have established called for a certain amount of rest AFTER the season. Maybe they didn't want him pitching all the way into October/November and then starting again in ST...hence shutting him down early.
This post was edited on 10/11/12 at 7:16 am
Posted on 10/11/12 at 7:24 am to barry
quote:
He'd be at a career high of IP by almost 80-100 at this point in the season. I feel fairly confident that he would have started to fade.
He did, in his last 6 starts of the year his fastball lost velocity. Against the Giants his fastball averaged 94mph a season low. To adjust for his lack of speed, his mechanics went to shite. There is a pretty good article about this in the new ESPN mag.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 7:30 am to TigerintheNO
quote:
He did, in his last 6 starts of the year his fastball lost velocity.
Or maybe he just lost motivation knowing that his next meaningful start was 7 months away.
quote:
I am wondering however, if this protocol they have established called for a certain amount of rest AFTER the season. Maybe they didn't want him pitching all the way into October/November and then starting again in ST...hence shutting him down early.
Then you start him late in 2013
This post was edited on 10/11/12 at 7:32 am
Posted on 10/11/12 at 7:30 am to benhamin5555
I really thought they were going to bring him back out for the playoffs. A nice long rest before the playoff series would have been very logical. Shutting him down and not using him in the playoffs reminds me of the Miles QB move in the bowl game last year.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 7:37 am to RandySavage
quote:
There is no hindsight here. Anyone with any sense was first guessing this horrible move and the Nats are getting exactly what they deserve.
There is a lot of hindsight in this thread about what other options the Nationals had.
No one in May was saying "boy Nationals better figure out what to do with Strasburg"
Posted on 10/11/12 at 7:50 am to jacks40
quote:
There is a lot of hindsight in this thread about what other options the Nationals had.
No one in May was saying "boy Nationals better figure out what to do with Strasburg"
The Nats had a commanding lead by June everyone thought they would have him skip starts or just pitch past the limit, no one thought they would actually shut him down for the postseason.
This post was edited on 10/11/12 at 7:53 am
Posted on 10/11/12 at 7:55 am to VerlanderBEAST
Flags fly forever
Posted on 10/11/12 at 8:03 am to iliveinabox
Strasburg got shelled in two of his last three starts. It was obvious he was already gassed. I have no problem with what Rizzo did. Stras isn't responsible for this shitastic offensive performance. Aside from Zimmerman and Desmond, no one has shown up on this team. They've collapsed under the pressure. We'll see how they respond tomorrow. If it wasn't for Moore's blooper on Sunday , the Nats are going home yesterday. They need to wake up.
Posted on 10/11/12 at 8:03 am to hiltacular
If the Nationals lose today against the Cardinals and are then eliminated from the playoffs, people will look back on the Nationals' decision to shut down Strasburn and say it was an incredibly poor decision.
Look, organizations play extremely high salaries to these players for one reason - to win a championship for that team and city. Otherwise, why put a player on the field?
I guaranty that their fans don't agree with the decision. What's the point of being the team with the best record in baseball if you're not willing to do whatever it takes to win a World Series?
Stupid decision period. No one can argue this.
Look, organizations play extremely high salaries to these players for one reason - to win a championship for that team and city. Otherwise, why put a player on the field?
I guaranty that their fans don't agree with the decision. What's the point of being the team with the best record in baseball if you're not willing to do whatever it takes to win a World Series?
Stupid decision period. No one can argue this.
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