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Started By
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re: My nostalgia for Larry Bird- Magic Johnson era NBA basketball has reached absurd levels
Posted on 8/15/24 at 6:39 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 8/15/24 at 6:39 pm to SlowFlowPro
Jesus man, you’re so insecure it’s exhausting
0
Posted on 8/15/24 at 6:42 pm to dukkbill
Traveling is a big one but people don’t understand how massive removing hand checking is. When you have an elite athlete who’s also a good to great defender allowed to eliminate all space and put his hands on you it raises their effectiveness astronomically no matter how good you are.
Posted on 8/15/24 at 6:43 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
llegal defense forced pure man. That was the entire point of the illegal defense rule.
Riley ran a lot of 2-3 zone at times and at other times ripped Joey Crawford for refusing to call illegal defense on the jazz when Mark Eaton would just camp in the lane
Posted on 8/15/24 at 6:55 pm to dukkbill
The Bulls ran full court traps and zones. The Celtics under Slick Rick pressed and trapped the entire game a lot of the time. Hell when the Bulls started their ascension to the elite there were articles and stories constantly complaining about them not being called for playing zone all the time. Same with Detroit, the Knicks and Seattle. The only real difference between the old illegal D and the new once is now they allow you to play in between and half dig a lot more. It’s basically a more lenient form of the old rule.
This post was edited on 8/15/24 at 6:57 pm
Posted on 8/15/24 at 6:59 pm to Madking
A shame that this thread got hijacked by SFP for its topic of how much influence magic and bird had on the rise of the NBA to heights it had never seen before…. He just can’t get out of his own way…
Posted on 8/15/24 at 7:02 pm to Madking
quote:
Traveling is a big one but people don’t understand how massive removing hand checking is
True. I think there was a long drought of bigs winning an MVP after Duncan (unless you count Garnett or Nowiski who played a different style). Tgat rule change moves Nash from an all star to an all timer
Posted on 8/15/24 at 7:20 pm to dukke v
It’s truly amazing what they did for the NBA
Posted on 8/15/24 at 7:29 pm to dukkbill
Well it’s the reason you had so much back to the basket play. All this face up stuff with average to below average ball handlers just wouldn’t even be tried back then.
Posted on 8/15/24 at 7:49 pm to dukke v
quote:
much influence magic and bird had on the rise of the NBA to heights it had never seen before
Magic was a really good interview as well. I may be in a minority of one but I also liked Dick Stockton doing the play by play. Heinson also hadn’t gone homer yet as an analyst. We hadn’t got to the sitcom era of announcers having their “catch phrase”
Posted on 8/15/24 at 8:04 pm to Madking
When is the last time we have seen a sky hook????? Just unstoppable.. yet with all these “elite” players these days none have tried to match it. Because it’s harder to master than a jump shot. Hakeem would destroy players these days. I don’t care what rules are in effect.
Posted on 8/15/24 at 8:23 pm to dukke v
quote:
When is the last time we have seen a sky hook????? Just
Robin Lopez had a bit of a hook, but it is largely gone. There were a lot of signature moves from that era. James Edwards fadeaway; the dream shake; ice man’s finger roll; Magic no look; hardaway crossover
Posted on 8/15/24 at 9:00 pm to dukke v
If those great centers from Ewing to Duncan’s era played today they’d be unstoppable. Think about the numbers Embiid puts up, all of those players were better than him.
This post was edited on 8/15/24 at 9:01 pm
Posted on 8/15/24 at 9:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Define today’s strategies, be detailed and use specifics. Lots of movement and passing seeking efficient points.
Lol just what I expected out of you
quote:
The most overrated action in NBA history, which still doesn't prevent iso-man D like in the past.
Ahh so you not only know nothing about pro basketball, you have never played it to any degree.
quote:
foul-baiting Existed in the past
Lol.
You really are a delusional argumentative dumbass. You and pride have to be relatives.
Posted on 8/15/24 at 9:15 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That is the reason why modern offenses would FEAST on that defensive style.
1. Because they would be playing against today’s players who have virtually no man defense skills.
2. Every major rule change of the last 20ish years has been to create more points. The current commissioner of the NBA is on record saying that he wants more offense and wants more numbers on box scores.
So no offenses didn’t get better, defenses got handicapped and subsequently less defense is taught in youth/high school basketball and definitely not on the AAU circuit.
The percentage of 3 point shots has increased and the number of on ball screens to allow PGs to drive to the rim has increased (due to the removal of hand checking) and the number of big men posting up on the block has decreased.
Posted on 8/15/24 at 9:16 pm to dukkbill
I learned my hook shot from Jabbar
Posted on 8/15/24 at 9:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I used to ignorantly defend it
Makes one consider all the things you ignorantly defend today.
Guess you’ll get that figured out yourself in about 20 years.
Carry on…
Posted on 8/15/24 at 10:02 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
Different games different eras. It’s a beautiful game played by graceful athletes. That 80s-90s was The Golden Era and it matters not if you are too self- satisfied to understand why.
The '80s NBA was fun and that was the peak of pro basketball. I'm sorry, but CBS' coverage was really good and their theme music from about 1983 through 1990 was better than the incredibly overrated Roundball Rock. Even the Pistons were fun in the early '80s when they played a style that was more up-tempo. Then they started playing goon ball, and that set the stage for the Knicks teams of the '90s.
In the 90s, the Jordan teams were fun to watch. Watching the Jazz with the pick-and-roll was cool. And there were great individual stars. But watching Heat-Knicks or anybody against the Knicks was a rough watch. It wasn't basketball, it was wrestling.
As for the NFL, the peak to me was the 1980s. The '70s are almost unwatchable, but they started to pass more in the '80s while at the same time there were a lot of good running teams and great defenses. It was a more balanced game than what we have now.
This post was edited on 8/15/24 at 10:03 pm
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:46 am to Dairy Sanders
Again he lacks a fundamental understanding of the game. The reason we’ve seen this mass move to switching and sagging help man defense is because of the freedom of movement rules, not necessarily because it’s more advanced. Back when the league was dominated by great post players the need for switching wouldn’t be there, in fact all that switching would leave you with terrible matchups post players would feast on. A great example of this was during the Celtics/Warriors finals a couple years ago where the Warriors went to pre-switch matchups with Curry starting on Horford. Back in the day the Celtics would’ve just sent Horford to the block and destroyed Curry from the jump but GS knowing Boston wasn’t going to try that gave them the freedom to play that matchup.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 9:46 am to Dairy Sanders
quote:
Because they would be playing against today’s players who have virtually no man defense skills.
Just because you wish it doesn't make it true
quote:
Every major rule change of the last 20ish years has been to create more points.
Except removing illegal defense which gave defense a huge edge. Other than that. That's a much more significant rule change than any other.
Illegal defense + 8 second rule >>>>>> hand checks
quote:
and the number of on ball screens to allow PGs to drive to the rim has increased (due to the removal of hand checking)
Hand checking has nothing to do with limiting screens
Utah under Sloan did just fine running dinosaur PNR with hand checking.
quote:
and the number of big men posting up on the block has decreased.
The development of the game has trained big men to be more skilled, yes. Everyone is more skilled today.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 9:47 am to Madking
quote:
Again he lacks a fundamental understanding of the game. The reason we’ve seen this mass move to switching and sagging help man defense is because of the freedom of movement rules, not necessarily because it’s more advanced. Back when the league was dominated by great post players the need for switching wouldn’t be there, in fact all that switching would leave you with terrible matchups post players would feast on. A great example of this was during the Celtics/Warriors finals a couple years ago where the Warriors went to pre-switch matchups with Curry starting on Horford. Back in the day the Celtics would’ve just sent Horford to the block and destroyed Curry from the jump but GS knowing Boston wasn’t going to try that gave them the freedom to play that matchup.
You are somewhat right here. The reason you see this mass move to switching has more to do with the type of player in the NBA now. Back when post players dominated the league I could use Dennis Rodman and space to the corner and you had to defend him. Once that rule went bye bye teams started to put more shooters on the floor to create the space you need to run an effective offense. Because you have more shooters on the floor and there is more space it's easier to attack the rim. Offensive systems are going to use actions to create easy driving opportunities thus forcing help thus getting the defense in rotations which leads to open 3's and wide open slot cuts. Switching limits the amount of actions the offense can effectively use. A tactic that defense can use now that was illegal in the illegal defense era is to front the post and use backside help to defend the lob pass. The lack of great post play in the NBA these days does make that much easier for sure but the freedom to help more minimizes the effectiveness of post play in todays game.
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