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quote:

It's probably stupid to clarify legal points here, but


I think it’s a prudent discussion

First, I agree that Lemons is a solid attorney and his pleadings and oral arguments are well crafted.

Nevertheless, the magistrate judge’s observation is correct. There will be a new ruling of law. Russell and its progeny identify two non-defective amendments

(1) A scriveners error

It’s unlikely we fall into this bucket. There aren’t typos. There is a procedural issue that must be discussed. That is, Halligan didn’t merely type James Coney or write “Teh”

(2) A lessening of charges on a fully voted on indictment

That is, the government presented ABCD. The GJ voted and approved ABCD. ABCD was presented to the clerk and the court proceeded on ABCD. The government then chooses to amend to only proceed on ABC

This is distinguishable. The government presented XYZ. The issue at law will be if the GJ can separately vote for X then Y and then Z or may it only vote on the transaction XYZ (e.g. like a veto compared to a line item veto). If they can only vote on the transaction then no bill was returned. If they may separately vote on each count, a true bill was returned and the foreman signed the bill reflecting the will of the GJ (e.g. he resolved the hanging chad)

Personally, I think the will of the GJ should control but there is a question of law

quote:

If the indictment was shown to the entire grand jury that means that Halligan committed perjury in court when she stated that she didn't


Perjury requires mens rea. She has to willfully lie. I don’t think she would willfully lie by make a statement that would jeopardize the indictment and question her acumen
quote:

course the DOJ can't release documents concerning ongoing investigations


Serious and legitimate question - is this the state of law or policy?

More specifically, is there a law that prevents disclosure?

I concur that they should not. It would interfere with the investigation and runs the risk of creating extra judicial punishment and shaming.

Nevertheless, I’m not aware of any statute that prevents such disclosure. Instead most statutes that compel disclosure (e.g. FOIA) have exclusions that allow information to not be disclosed

Thus, I had presumed the hierarchy is

Executive branch can withhold anything unless compelled
They may be compelled by court order or statute
Most statutes have exclusions for ongoing investigations

To make it germain, the issue would then be:

1- what exclusions to compelled disclosure exist in the transparency act; and
2-how would the transparency act intersect with the separation of powers between the executive and legislative branch

The 2nd is minefield bc unless you get one of those weird non-textual decisions, the outcome could also impact FOIA. Thus I’d hope there would be superseding legislation to allow

Thus, my seat of the pants answers would be

Can-yes
Should-no
Will-no

I didn’t look deeper and to paraphrase your earlier point- I am here to learn
quote:

The Eastern District of Virginia is known for its efficiency. I was surprised the Judge didn't insist on deciding the motion to dismiss based on Halligan’s improper appointment first, and staying all other proceedings as potentially unnecessary.


I don't have any insight into the judges thoughts, but it's possible that is not his direction primarily because of efficiency. You have to anticipate that no matter what you order on any of the motions, your decision will be appealed. Thus, if you docket everything, and make decisions on everything in close proximity in time, the appeals court could do the same. If you stay proceedings until a decision, and you are overtuned on appeal, you are pushing the docket out even further.

Additionally, the appeals court could be relieved from making other pronouncements of law that have precedential value, which could hamstring future decisions. That is, even if you really wanted to dismiss based on abuse of the grand jury or for improper appointment, you run the risk of establishing a precedent that could impact future prosecutions where you didn't think that dismissal was warranted, but bound yourself to a test that was too easy to navigate.

Many judges are reluctant to create new law if they can find an easy way to dispose of or uphold a matter that doesn't require a new precedent. Bad facts make bad law, and no one wants to be the one who gets quoted as making the bad law.
quote:

Is it possible she is so dumb/inexperienced she didn't know this was a no-no?


That may depend on which actions we are examining

- I wouldn’t fault her for unknowingly tilting at windmills. If no one ever goes against lost causes, the law becomes statist
- I wouldn’t fault her for procedural errors. The MPRE might say she violated a duty, but I’d be more forgiving if that was a charge on an ethics violation

- She wasn’t a jerk about it. She knew her limitations and did not dogmatically try to sell her experience or her theories. She confined her actions to the tribunals
- They overstep would potentiallybe intentionally misrepresenting the result of prior proceedings to a tribunal. If founded, that is something that could be subject to censure
quote:

Not sure the rules behind it but they then stated grand jury testimony was not required to be shared with defense


Not quite, the magistrate judge issued a discovery order to turn over the materials. The district court judge stayed the order until he conducted a hearing on the matter

Turning over GJ proceedings is extra ordinary. Reviewing extra ordinary orders would be prudent
quote:

is mind-boggling that Halligan was allowed by the DOJ to handle the indictment by herself.


I hope we learn the behind the scenes story on these events someday, but here is what we do know

- Halligan has done the jr associate work for Trump before. She was the one that appeared at Mar-a-Lago during the subpoena. I feel for her on that. Many fine professionals have had to handle bad situations to appease a client, particularly one who may not listen. Kudos for standing tall and taking the Ls for the team
- Career Justice dept persons resigned rather than even submit the case. Tgat can be for political reasons, but rarely does someone throw away an established career
- No one would help. That can also be political and it may be not to taint oneself with a losing case. Nevertheless, that level of separation is atypical when no one at all will help. To even get her further help, they brought junior attys from another office
- Huge Tik Tok. She not only had to get indictment without help and experience, she had to do it fast due to the SOL

Collectively, that’s a world of shite. I don’t wish it on anyone and I admire anyone standing in to do this work

Nevertheless, you can’t lie about a proceeding to a court. That is wrong no matter what, but it’s also crazy when it’s part of a proceeding that is recorded and the most central part of the proceeding. I’d like to at least here her story before becoming overly judgmental, but the alleged behavior is unchartered territory
They certainly aren’t sending the top brass

There is a spectrum from:

Unable to achieve justice due to bias through existing precedent thwarts justice

But if a licensed member of the bar intentionally misrepresented the contents of a document, we are, to quote Fitzpatrick, In uncharted territory. I hope there is a “rest of the story “

re: Michael Penix out for the season

Posted by dukkbill on 11/18/25 at 2:55 pm to
quote:

bad as the Saints


Sounds like Penix envy

re: Live: Debate of Epstein Bill

Posted by dukkbill on 11/18/25 at 2:39 pm to

quote:

Who are the 5 NVs?


Beyer, Cassar, Rulli, Sherrill and Womack. House Clerk

re: Live: Debate of Epstein Bill

Posted by dukkbill on 11/18/25 at 1:30 pm to
Just got a nay

ETA: Now nay is gone
quote:

Were they subpoenaed or kindly asked to go in?


There was a subpoena issued in August. Hilldawg no showed her Oct 9 depo but supposedly there were discussions with Clinton lawyers about scheduling a time NY Post
quote:

I'm not sure I understand what this means in this context. Are they trying him in traffic court? Is a federal magistrate a judge or not?


A federal magistrate judge is a federal judge but much different than a district court judges. They are hired by the district judges rather than appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate. They will handle preliminary matters. In this case, the discovery request for the GJ records. They will not rule on the motions to dismiss

This motion and hearing is in the discovery matter issued by the magistrate judge
quote:

That’s not even getting to the stale warrants, testifying agent may have testified to conversations protected by AC privilege, etc.


I was trying to parse that. So if I read correctly, the FBI exceeded their seizure rights for the Richmond emails based on the Arctic Frost subpoenas and then rushed a new subpoena in the Arctic Haze investigation and then tried to use the information in the 2025 investigation?
quote:

Biden appointee?


Fitzpatrick is a magistrate judge. He was appointed during Bidens term, but magistrates are voted on by the existing district court judges Appointment announcement
In addition to the alleged burden shifting, the magistrate suggests that Halligan used the “just trust me bro” argument to suggest there was more evidence than what was presented (p.16 of the magistrate’s decision)
quote:

Is there a "log" of this vote? I'd love to see where republicans landed on it as well.


I don’t think there was a vote. From the reporting,

- The resolution was signed. Thus, pursuant to House rules it must be put to a floor vote 7 days after the first day Congress reconvenes. This is the “ripening period” that gives the reps time to talk to their constituents The resolution will still be voted on and the likely target date is mid December

- this rep made a motion to set aside the rules and bring it to the floor now. The motion requires unanimous consent so it fails on any one objection. That’s just recorded as a motion that doesn’t carry in the minutes.

-when there are votes, the clerk will record them. They are published very quickly and can retrieved from the Clerk’s Website
quote:

Buggy Whip manufacturers were crying about the fad of the "automobile" around the turn of the 20th century. AI is the game changer.


Yep, and those manufacturers either retooled and sold vacuum cleaners ie Hoover) or cashed out. I don’t think anyone on this thread is asking they receive a too big to fail bail out

As for the relevant comparison, their employees could also find work with transferable skills. They did not have to compete with an immigrant work force. If H1Bs with today’s relocation ability, they would have likely been without jobs

I don’t understand all the cliches about AI though. If AI reduces demand for those jobs then it’s even more reason to eliminate or reform the H1B program. We should certainly be able to fill the supply with Us citizens if demand is decreasing. H1B was meant for the Enrico Fermi’s of the world, not for clerks that just have some tech skills
quote:

The tech industry is a dying industry because of AI and outsourcing not because of the H1B program


Ai is another story. There is always disruptive technology that changes industries. It’s impact can and will be felt in many segments

Outsourcing is a reason why the H1B can’t exist as a loophole. If we incentivize jobs, plants etc in the US. Then it defeats a central purpose if all the the domesticated capital just imports foreign cheap labor also

Even Pre-Trump there was carrot and stick based incentivatives to bring capital back domestically. That’s one of the reasons of the H1B visa abuse. The companies were able to utilize tax incentives to make fixed asset operations even cheaper, but kept labor costs low by abusing the H1B system