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re: Jerry Rice's Records
Posted on 1/17/12 at 1:29 pm to computerguy
Posted on 1/17/12 at 1:29 pm to computerguy
quote:
What would have happened to a WR like Fitzgerald if he would have played with Brady his whole career. (assume he had another HOF qb if the careers don't match up perfectly.)
Strictly talking about the remainder of his career, if Fitzgerald could have someone like Matt Ryan or Tony Romo(not necessarily them, but someone who could put up similar regular season numbers) he would have an outside shot of catching Rice. The last 2 years he's had:
Derek Anderson
John Skelton
Max Hall
Kevin Kolb
And he's still put up these numbers the last 2 seasons:
170 catches
2548 yards
14 TDs
This post was edited on 1/17/12 at 1:56 pm
0
Posted on 1/17/12 at 1:31 pm to computerguy
quote:
Not knocking Rice but he definitely took full advantage of having two hall of fame QB's throwing too him.
or did they take advantage of having a ridiculous hall of fame WR to throw to?
Posted on 1/17/12 at 1:33 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
but Moss was the most talented
But can you classify height and length as "talent"? Not saying Moss doesn't have talent, but a lot of his success came from how tall and long he was/is.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 1:48 pm to CocomoLSU
Moss may go to the hall of fame for running one route. All he did was say hey, i am running towards the end zone just throw it near me and it doesn't matter how many guys they put out there or how deep they play i will simply jump up and get it...and for the majority of his career he did just that.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 1:59 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
But can you classify height and length as "talent"? Not saying Moss doesn't have talent, but a lot of his success came from how tall and long he was/is.
As far as sheer athleticism goes, Moss is reported to have run 4.25 40 yard dash (I see this number multiple places. It's not a combine time, but it was clocked at Marshall University ) and a 51" vertical (you see there that Michael Jordan's is 49").
Rice is listed at 4.65 and once said:
quote:LINK
"If you lined me up to race someone during the 40-yard dash, they'd beat me," Rice said. "But you put me on a football field, in a uniform, with someone chasing me, the hair on my back flew up and I was able to run by people. I think people underestimated my speed. I ran those routes over and over, until it was like ... perfection. That's why I ran away from people."
I don't think you can exactly attribute speed, jumping, and catching ability to "height and length." He's made some damn 'flashy' catches in his day.
That said, I still think Rice was the better player.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 2:12 pm to RedHawk
I too believe he was the best receiver ever in the NFL. But longevity also plays a role in those large numbers he put up.
He played in 303 games over a 16 year career (he lost virtually all of the 1997 season, so really 15 seasons), yet he had only 4 seasons where he had 100 or more receptions. Wes Welker has had more than 110 catches in 4 of the last 5 seasons. In Welker's career (124 games) he has averaged 5,2 receptions per game, compared to Rice's 5.1.
Obviously, Wes Welker is no Jerry Rice. Not even close in terms of overall playing ability. But longevity must always be considered when looking at career numbers, just to put them in perspective.
He played in 303 games over a 16 year career (he lost virtually all of the 1997 season, so really 15 seasons), yet he had only 4 seasons where he had 100 or more receptions. Wes Welker has had more than 110 catches in 4 of the last 5 seasons. In Welker's career (124 games) he has averaged 5,2 receptions per game, compared to Rice's 5.1.
Obviously, Wes Welker is no Jerry Rice. Not even close in terms of overall playing ability. But longevity must always be considered when looking at career numbers, just to put them in perspective.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 2:15 pm to NHTIGER
quote:
He played in 303 games over a 16 year career (he lost virtually all of the 1997 season, so really 15 seasons), yet he had only 4 seasons where he had 100 or more receptions. Wes Welker has had more than 110 catches in 4 of the last 5 seasons.
Totally different eras.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 2:26 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Totally different eras.
Sure, but that's true of all records in every professional sport. (Incidentally, Welker and Rice played in the same game on November 21, 2004)
Posted on 1/17/12 at 2:29 pm to NHTIGER
quote:True but that should be looked upon as a positive rather than a detriment. Taking care of your body, life, & career to the point where you are playing far longer than your peers deserves to go along the rest of his stats as a testament to his greatness.
I too believe he was the best receiver ever in the NFL. But longevity also plays a role in those large numbers he put up.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 2:41 pm to RedHawk
Unquestionably the GOAT at WR. Not close and may never be.
IMO, he's the best player to ever live.
IMO, he's the best player to ever live.
This post was edited on 1/17/12 at 2:43 pm
Posted on 1/17/12 at 2:47 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:
I don't think you can exactly attribute speed, jumping, and catching ability to "height and length." He's made some damn 'flashy' catches in his day.
Absolutely, and I would never say that Moss isn't talented (and clearly it's arguable that he's the most talented ever). I'm simply saying that Rice essentially did more with less (in terms of height/length/speed/whatever)...which seems to me would make him more "talented" at the position.
It sucks because I know what I'm trying to say, just having trouble conveying it clearly.
This post was edited on 1/17/12 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 1/17/12 at 2:59 pm to RemouladeSawce
Rice's longevity certainly helps his GOAT status, but I think his numbers from 1987 (strike year, shortened season) will never be broken in a similar window by anyone either. He has 22 receiving touchdowns in 12 games (had another one on a rush. The next highest was 11. Ridiculous.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 4:37 pm to Hooligan33
Longevity is a talent itself.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 4:41 pm to Lsuhoohoo
quote:
or did they take advantage of having a ridiculous hall of fame WR to throw to?
He helped their stats, but again, Montana had 2 SB rings before they even drafted Rice.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 4:53 pm to computerguy
quote:
Not knocking Rice but he definitely took full advantage of having two hall of fame QB's throwing too him.
At the ripe old age of 41, he caught 63 passes, for almost 900 yards, with Rick Mirer and Marques Tuiasosopo being his starting QB for 9 games
Combined, his QBs that year completed just 53% of their passes, for less than 3,000 yards, threw only 9 TDs against 13 INTs, and a QB rating of 65.0
In other words, his QBs sucked major arse, but he was still a very productive NFL WR
Hell, in game 15 that year, 3 QBs played for the Raiders; Mirer, Rob Johnson, and Tee Martin.....and Rice caught 10 passes for 159 yards....at 41 years old...with 3 scrubs throwing him the ball
Best...receiver...ever
Posted on 1/17/12 at 5:06 pm to SPEEDY
In my book he will be the GOAT of football forever, as I doubt anyone will ever approach what he accomplished.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 5:12 pm to Hopeful Doc
I love this quote.
Rice said. "I never wanted to let my teammates or coaches or the fans down. When the fans came to the game, I wanted them to walk out of the stadium saying they had just witnessed something special. So if they paid their hard-earned money, they were never going to see a player out there who half-assed it. They don't deserve that. If they work hard to get the chance to come to a game, they should be entertained. They should be rewarded."
Rice said. "I never wanted to let my teammates or coaches or the fans down. When the fans came to the game, I wanted them to walk out of the stadium saying they had just witnessed something special. So if they paid their hard-earned money, they were never going to see a player out there who half-assed it. They don't deserve that. If they work hard to get the chance to come to a game, they should be entertained. They should be rewarded."
Posted on 1/17/12 at 5:14 pm to Mstate
That's what happens when you work your arse off as kid with a brick layer as a father. Oh.... and it also helps develop really soft hands for catching a football.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 5:44 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
Absolutely, and I would never say that Moss isn't talented (and clearly it's arguable that he's the most talented ever). I'm simply saying that Rice essentially did more with less (in terms of height/length/speed/whatever)...which seems to me would make him more "talented" at the position.
It sucks because I know what I'm trying to say, just having trouble conveying it clearly.
I think I get what you're saying. Rice is the more talented receiver, especially since he wasn't graced with the raw athletic ability and size of Randy Moss.
If that's the case, I wholeheartedly agree. It even takes my respect for him another step further- he's the product of hard, hard work more so than God-given talent, and in the end, his numbers are higher/better than any (potentially) "more athletic" receiver ever to play the game.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 5:52 pm to RedHawk
quote:
The only two that could maybe even sniff this record are Calvin Johnson who has 366 catches at age 26 and Larry Fitzgerald who has 693 catches at age 28.
Megatron doesn't catch enough balls to come close to Rice. Andre Johnson-if he stayed healthy which never happens-and Wes Welker are the 2 that immediately come to mind from a total receptions standpoint.
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