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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 1/17/12 at 6:49 pm to prplhze2000
quote:
wasn't the fatest guy out there.
but you really never saw him get caught from behind
Posted on 1/17/12 at 7:00 pm to TigerintheNO
You give me a choice between Rice and Moss in their prime and I'll take Moss
Posted on 1/17/12 at 7:08 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
but you really never saw him get caught from behind
So true. He ran a 4.6 in shorts and full pads. Game speed>>>>combine speed.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 7:17 pm to glassman
Moss could jog past Jerry Rice on a football field
Posted on 1/17/12 at 7:30 pm to Powerman
Rice took ballet for balance and trained in tae kwon do. He literally did everything to be the goat. Because of rice (and lott) george chung got a job as a trainer with the niners in using tae kwon do in football. The niners benefitted big time. Chung went on to help mediocre guys like terry kirby to be good players. Oh and lott and montana's wife "starred" in chungs "b" karate movies. See "hawkeye" if you are interested. Cynthia rothrock of hong kong film fame was in on those cinematic gems.
Eta: if you watch the film, I'm the kid who gets a roundhouse to the temple and dies....rolling down the cliff. I can't believe my acting career didn't take off.
Eta: if you watch the film, I'm the kid who gets a roundhouse to the temple and dies....rolling down the cliff. I can't believe my acting career didn't take off.
This post was edited on 1/17/12 at 7:32 pm
Posted on 1/17/12 at 7:35 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Rice took ballet for balance and trained in tae kwon do. He literally did everything to be the goat.
Ernest Givens took some sort of dancing classes as well
LINK
If you watched the Oilers when they were a playoff team you would remember him as part of the run and shoot offense. One of my favorite players as a kid.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 7:56 pm to Powerman
quote:
You give me a choice between Rice and Moss in their prime and I'll take Moss
Nothing like being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrary.
I'm not sure how you define prime, but age 33
Rice : 122 1848 15.1 15
Moss : 28 393 14.0 5
look at their stats and find me a stretch where Moss was better.
Hell, the year Moss set the TD record, he had 98 catches and 23 TDs. Rice had 65 catches and 22 TD's.
No lo contendre.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 7:58 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Nothing like being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrary.
I'm not
I think that Moss was the most feared WR in NFL history
frick the numbers. The guy was the best decoy of all time in addition to the numbers.
He made also ran QBs like Jeff George and Cunningham look beast mode in the twilight of their careers and had everyone convinced that Culpepper was a pro bowl caliber QB.
You saw what he could do when he finally had a pro bowl QB throwing the ball to him. Imagine if he had his entire career with pro bowl guys like Rice did.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 8:26 pm to Blitzed
quote:
I consider him the best player ever to play in the NFL.
I'd agree with that.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 8:39 pm to baytiger
quote:
I'd agree with that.
Moss>>Rice
Posted on 1/17/12 at 8:42 pm to Powerman
at safety
Posted on 1/17/12 at 9:23 pm to Powerman
quote:
You saw what he could do when he finally had a pro bowl QB throwing the ball to him. Imagine if he had his entire career with pro bowl guys like Rice did.
Fun fact (just decided to play with some numbers):
Average season over full career (including injuries, stints with Raiders, being 42 years old/an a-hole...):
rec recyds recTD
Rice(x20): 77.5 1145 9.9
Moss(x13): 73.4 1143 12
Now, I know that averages for a career don't perfectly represent the career itself, but:
the taller guy was a (slightly) bigger red zone threat
they were otherwise almost identical in average production)
Posted on 1/17/12 at 9:37 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
But can you classify height and length as "talent"? Not saying Moss doesn't have talent, but a lot of his success came from how tall and long he was/is.
Not only was he 6'4", but he has the best coordination, jumping ability, and speed I have ever seen in the NFL.
The guy is a freak. Hopeful Doc posted his combine-type stats. That to me is talent. He is the most athletic human being I have ever seen play (Lebron is second) and no I have not seen Bo Jackson or Herschel Walker play.
If Moss could play against Dallas every game, then I would take him over Rice.
I agree with Powerman about Moss at his peak over Rice if he always gave a frick. He garnered triple coverage at times. The running game was dominant under him, and Robert Smith was no Adrian Peterson.
Posted on 1/17/12 at 9:41 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:
they were otherwise almost identical in average production
Right
And most of Rice's career he had hall of fame guys in their prime getting him the ball
Moss had shite that he turned to gold
Posted on 1/17/12 at 9:58 pm to Powerman
Moss was great at one route Rice was great at every route
Posted on 1/17/12 at 10:35 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Robert Smith was no Adrian Peterson
Maybe, but they have pretty similar career rushing numbers, with the exception of TDs
.........................Carries.....Yards.....AVG
Robert Smith........1411.......6818......4.8
Peterson..............1406.......6752......4.8
And the year before Moss' rookie year, Smith rushed for 1266 yards, (in just 14 games), while averaging 5.5 yards per carry. Dude was a legit runningback
quote:
He garnered triple coverage at times.
And no way was Moss getting triple teamed during those Vikings years while he played with Robert Smith. He had Chris Carter lined up on the opposite side of the field.
If anything, he benefited from having Robert Smith and Chris Carter on his team
This post was edited on 1/17/12 at 10:36 pm
Posted on 1/17/12 at 10:37 pm to SPEEDY
quote:
And no way was Moss getting triple teamed during those Vikings years while he played with Robert Smith. He had Chris Carter lined up on the opposite side of the field.
I think that's perhaps one of the most impressive statements you can say about Moss
As a rookie he was the star on a team with Reed and Carter
Posted on 1/17/12 at 10:50 pm to SPEEDY
quote:
And the year before Moss' rookie year, Smith rushed for 1266 yards, (in just 14 games), while averaging 5.5 yards per carry. Dude was a legit runningback
Definitely. However, the Vikings seemed to lead the league in rushing quite a bit (or at the least be in the highest tier) because Moss had so much attention. Look at some of their games and see how the defense focused in on Moss.
quote:
And no way was Moss getting triple teamed during those Vikings years while he played with Robert Smith. He had Chris Carter lined up on the opposite side of the field.
Like I said, "at times" Moss garnered triple coverage. He really did. 98 was the first year that I started watching and remembering Vikings game with my dad. I was so lucky to watch those seven seasons with Randy.
quote:
If anything, he benefited from having Robert Smith and Chris Carter on his team
This sounds very ignorant. The box was fricking empty every single week. Defenses set their gameplan to stop Randy Moss, not Cris Carter (should be a HOF) who was at the end or Robert Smith.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 7:29 am to Powerman
quote:
Moss had shite that he turned to gold
You're severely underestimating pre-injury Daunte Culpepper.
For instance, in 2004, Culpepper is 379/548 (69.2%) for 4717 yards and 39 TDs.
Moss's numbers that year? 49 catches, 767 yards, and 13TDs.
Even Moss garnering extra attention doesn't account for the MVP-type numbers Culpepper had that year. And pre (I believe it was knee) injury, that guy was a damn good QB. He also ran for 400+ yds in each of the seasons he started before getting hurt.
When Moss had Kerry Collins in Oakland (Collins's 2nd year in the system, threw for 3759), he catches 60 balls for 1005 yds. The following year, when he has a Brooks/Walter combo, his numbers drop to 42 catches for 553 yds (and 3 TDs).
While Culpepper/Cunningham/George aren't in the argument for GOAT like Montana (and sometimes Young) are, I think you're severely underestimating the caliber of QB play (or the 'inflation' that Moss put on their numbers) in Minnesota, and even with Collins in Oakland to some extent.
This post was edited on 1/18/12 at 7:31 am
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