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re: GM Jocketty to overrule Baker: Aroldis Chapman to be in the rotation (Reds)
Posted on 3/13/13 at 11:34 am to PurpleAndGold86
Posted on 3/13/13 at 11:34 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
Going from that to an MLB starting load of 180-190-200 innings a season is pretty tough an arm that has never even approached that number before.
There are strategies to doing it though. The Nats and the Braves both did it last year with different guys. I liked the Braves way better.
That's why I said moving him to the rotation makes sense at some point this season. I don't necessarily think it needs to be done right away though.
1
Posted on 3/13/13 at 11:38 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
That's why I said moving him to the rotation makes sense at some point this season. I don't necessarily think it needs to be done right away though.
That's about where I stand as well. And unless I'm wrong (and I may very well be) the Reds still have some serviceable closers aside from Chapman as long as everyone stays healthy so that shouldn't be a huge issue either.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 11:43 am to MrWiseGuy
He has a LOT more value in the rotation than he does in the pen. While a top flight closer is certainly not a dime a dozen, there are more serviceable closers than there are No. 1 starters.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 11:50 am to Baloo
quote:
Know who ranked top 10 in PAP under Dusty Baker? Aaron Harang. Know who was lurking just outside the top ten? Edison Volquez. What do they have in common? HINT: it's a medical procedure.
Oh yea what medical procedure is that?
The point is since price has been hired, he's controlled the pitchers. I don't give a shite what happened in 2003. The situation has changed.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 11:55 am to PurpleAndGold86
quote:
You don't seem to be taking into account the fact that he has never thrown more than 118 innings in a season. Going from that to an MLB starting load of 180-190-200 innings a season is pretty tough an arm that has never even approached that number before.
which is why he won't be throwing 200 IP, Strasburg never pitched more than 123 innings in a season before last year.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 11:55 am to barry
Well, Volquez's Tommy John was 2010. Harang's was 2009, i think. So we're not talking ancient history.
Let's face it, if Chapman was on any other team, he'd already be in the rotation. The only reason there's been a three year delay of him being in the pen is because no one in their right mind trusts Dusty Baker with Chapman's arm. Nor should they. You have to put Chapman in the rotation because a pitcher of his quality is wasted in the pen, but the Reds have dragged their feet on this move for as long as possible because Dusty has the worst track record of any manager alive when it comes to managing a pitching staff.
You don't give a shite what happened in 2003, but you should care about Dusty long track record from 1995 to now. It's an ongoing concern. And it's not like he hasn't overworked pitchers in Cincinnati, leading to surgery.
Let's face it, if Chapman was on any other team, he'd already be in the rotation. The only reason there's been a three year delay of him being in the pen is because no one in their right mind trusts Dusty Baker with Chapman's arm. Nor should they. You have to put Chapman in the rotation because a pitcher of his quality is wasted in the pen, but the Reds have dragged their feet on this move for as long as possible because Dusty has the worst track record of any manager alive when it comes to managing a pitching staff.
You don't give a shite what happened in 2003, but you should care about Dusty long track record from 1995 to now. It's an ongoing concern. And it's not like he hasn't overworked pitchers in Cincinnati, leading to surgery.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 12:03 pm to Baloo
quote:
Harang's was 2009
Harang has never had Tommy John Surgery, unless an appendectomy is now called that.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 12:03 pm to Baloo
quote:
Well, Volquez's Tommy John was 2010. Harang's was 2009, i think. So we're not talking ancient history.
We aren't even talking history, because Aaron Harang never had tommy john surgery
quote:
but the Reds have dragged their feet on this move for as long as possible because Dusty has the worst track record of any manager alive when it comes to managing a pitching staff.
False, he was scheduled to be a starter last year but Ryan Madson blew out his arm so he moved back into the pen.
quote:
You don't give a shite what happened in 2003, but you should care about Dusty long track record from 1995 to now. It's an ongoing concern. And it's not like he hasn't overworked pitchers in Cincinnati, leading to surgery.
I do, if it wasn't well establish that Bryan Price has control of the pitchers. They just let dusty tinker with the lineup all day.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 12:10 pm to barry
The safer move is keeping chapman in the bullpen, and having a shut down closer is essential especially in the playoffs. But if he can stay healthy as a starter and be just as dominant, then their starting pitching became by far the best in the league. (I already think reds have the best starting 5) but The reds need to monitor his arm closely. And keep him on an innings limit like the braves did.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 12:13 pm to barry
I thought he had Tommy John in 2009, the year after the appendectomy. My bad. He's still had arm troubles, and last year was the first time since 2007 he's started 30 games. Volquez, you don't dispute his arm troubles.
And if you don't think Chapman being kept out of the rotation has nothing to do with the most notorious pitcher career killer being the manager, I don't know what to tell you. Of course the Reds moved Chapman back to the pen at the first opportunity they had. That's not the least bit suspicious to you? Didn't set off a single red flag?
I think it's telling that you're attitude, "it's no big deal because we don't let our manager actually manage the club." I don't believe that's true and if it is, that's another massive warning sign.
You have to put Chapman in the rotation because he's awesome, but I'm terrified of what Dusty can do to yet another promising arm.
And if you don't think Chapman being kept out of the rotation has nothing to do with the most notorious pitcher career killer being the manager, I don't know what to tell you. Of course the Reds moved Chapman back to the pen at the first opportunity they had. That's not the least bit suspicious to you? Didn't set off a single red flag?
I think it's telling that you're attitude, "it's no big deal because we don't let our manager actually manage the club." I don't believe that's true and if it is, that's another massive warning sign.
You have to put Chapman in the rotation because he's awesome, but I'm terrified of what Dusty can do to yet another promising arm.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 12:21 pm to Baloo
Posted on 3/13/13 at 12:30 pm to KosmoCramer
Nope. I just like talking baseball.
And I reject the assertion that Dusty Baker's habit of destroying pitcher's arms is something that only happened ten years ago. He's been doing it for 15 years, has done it at three stops, including his current one, and it is of course a concern going forward. To act like it's not a concern is the equivalent of stomping your feet holding your breath, sticking your fingers in your ears, and pretending real hard no one is talking.
I rather like Chapman and think he's one of the most exciting young arms in baseball. His ceiling is almost unlimited. Leaving him in the pen is a waste of everyone's time. His fastball is ludicrous.
And I reject the assertion that Dusty Baker's habit of destroying pitcher's arms is something that only happened ten years ago. He's been doing it for 15 years, has done it at three stops, including his current one, and it is of course a concern going forward. To act like it's not a concern is the equivalent of stomping your feet holding your breath, sticking your fingers in your ears, and pretending real hard no one is talking.
I rather like Chapman and think he's one of the most exciting young arms in baseball. His ceiling is almost unlimited. Leaving him in the pen is a waste of everyone's time. His fastball is ludicrous.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 12:44 pm to Baloo
His slider makes me want to take off my pants
Posted on 3/13/13 at 12:48 pm to barry
Well, keep them on. We don't need to see that. But yeah, I'd make sweet, sweet love to pretty much his whole repertoire.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 12:58 pm to Baloo
quote:i realize his fb and slider are sick, but is his lack of a 3rd pitch going to limit him as a starter?
sweet love to pretty much his whole repertoire.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 1:00 pm to Pilot Tiger
quote:
i realize his fb and slider are sick, but is his lack of a 3rd pitch going to limit him as a starter?
He's got a pretty decent change up. There was just absolutely no need to throw it as a closer. He can get it down in the high 70's.
Also the guy is just a phenomenal athlete. They say he's one of the fastest guys on the team. I want to see him hit too, supposedly he's got a decent swing.
This post was edited on 3/13/13 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 3/13/13 at 1:10 pm to barry
Eventually, he's going to need to add a curveball, but geez.. his fastball and slider are so good its actually hindered the development of his other pitches. Why bother, if you can get everybody out with those two? The fact he's developed a pretty good changeup shows that he can develop as a pitcher, so going forward, I'm not that concerned.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 1:30 pm to Pilot Tiger
Adding a third plus pitch would help him be an elite starter. But his fastball and slider are nasty. If he can just locate his change up enough for the batter to respect it, and he stays healthy, it could be a great move
Posted on 3/13/13 at 1:30 pm to barry
quote:
Strasburg never pitched more than 123 innings in a season before last year.
Wrong.
Posted on 3/13/13 at 1:32 pm to Baloo
quote:
Eventually, he's going to need to add a curveball
Why? When did the Big Unit ever throw a curveball?
He has a fastball in the upper 90s and an absolutely devastating slider. A changeup is all he would ever need as a third option and he might not even need that. A well located 98 MPH fastball to go along with that slider will get a lot of hitters out.
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