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re: Drew Bledsoe: Manning and Elway were better QBs than Brady and Montana
Posted on 9/12/16 at 12:40 pm to Powerman
Posted on 9/12/16 at 12:40 pm to Powerman
Manning and Brady is only debatable because ESPN is located in New England.
Manning went to the Superbowls with 4 different head coaches. He was the MVP of the entire NFL 5 times. That's 1 out of every 3 seasons he was healthy. He holds every single significant record for the position. He single handily elevated the position of QB to the most important position in all of sports.
Peyton Manning came in with ridiculous hype and not only did he deliver he surpassed it.
Manning went to the Superbowls with 4 different head coaches. He was the MVP of the entire NFL 5 times. That's 1 out of every 3 seasons he was healthy. He holds every single significant record for the position. He single handily elevated the position of QB to the most important position in all of sports.
Peyton Manning came in with ridiculous hype and not only did he deliver he surpassed it.
3
Posted on 9/12/16 at 12:46 pm to Bench McElroy
I mean you could say he's completely right. Would someone be so outraged if you had Elway and Manning at 1-2 all time with Brady and Montana at 3/4 or 4/5? All 4 are all timers and a lot think Manning is the GOAT. I would probably put it:
Montana
Manning
Brady
Elway
But all 4 are top 10 so who cares
Montana
Manning
Brady
Elway
But all 4 are top 10 so who cares
Posted on 9/12/16 at 12:49 pm to Buckeye06
Joe Montana is at 28th with 164
Approximate Value Leaders
Approximate value is a number pro reference came up with in an attempt to compare all players since 1960
Posted on 9/12/16 at 12:51 pm to BhamDore
quote:
He single handily elevated the position of QB to the most important position in all of sports.
No.
That would be the NFL Rules committee . They have put in work the past few decades.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 12:51 pm to Buckeye06
Montana, Brady, Manning, would be on my Mt. Rushmore of QBs. Not sure about Elway.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 12:53 pm to TigerintheNO
I understand it's not a popular opinion, but the Pats being 12-5 without Brady does change the way I view him. And it isn't just the fact they are winning, the actual qbs are putting up good numbers
Posted on 9/12/16 at 12:57 pm to BhamDore
quote:
He single handily elevated the position of QB to the most important position in all of sports.
I have read some dumb shite in this forum ... but, it has been awhile since I read something this stupid.
LOL ... yep, prior to horse-head ... QB just really wasn't that important. LO-fricking-L.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 1:00 pm to wildtigercat93
Mannings greatness hurt him IMO.
He called his own number too many times.
He called his own number too many times.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 1:01 pm to sgallo3
For the billionth time, what system?
Under Belichick the Patriots have been
01, 02, 03 - Power Running
04, 05 - Pro Style
06 - Weird Spread
07, 08, 09 - Air Coryell
10, 11, 12 - Army of Smurfs / Dual TE era
13, 14, 15, 16 - Up Tempo Spread
Under Belichick the Patriots have been
01, 02, 03 - Power Running
04, 05 - Pro Style
06 - Weird Spread
07, 08, 09 - Air Coryell
10, 11, 12 - Army of Smurfs / Dual TE era
13, 14, 15, 16 - Up Tempo Spread
Posted on 9/12/16 at 1:05 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
wildtigercat93
quote:
Jcorye1
Posted on 9/12/16 at 1:08 pm to navy
It wasn't the most important position in all of sports prior to Manning. Teams before Manning built strong defenses and ran the ball. It wasn't until Manning built teams completely around franchise QBs and turned the teams over to them.
QB was the most important position, but only because it was a 1 man unit. Now if you don't have a QB you have no shot.
You can say Tom was a better leader than Manning. I don't know how you measure that. You can say he is your favorite, but you can't say anybody played the position of QB better than Peyton Manning.
When teams are looking in the draft for a franchise QB they look for the next Peyton Manning. That says it all to me.
QB was the most important position, but only because it was a 1 man unit. Now if you don't have a QB you have no shot.
You can say Tom was a better leader than Manning. I don't know how you measure that. You can say he is your favorite, but you can't say anybody played the position of QB better than Peyton Manning.
When teams are looking in the draft for a franchise QB they look for the next Peyton Manning. That says it all to me.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 1:11 pm to Bench McElroy
I understand the point he's trying to make, it's all subjective. QBs are judged by team success, similar to NBA superstars.
However, I'd argue that it's much more difficult to win a Super Bowl as a QB if you have a below average team (compared to the NBA).
Would Bobby Hebert have won multiple SBs if he were the QB of the 49ers? I'll hedge and say that he wins two but throws bone-headed INTs in the other two. Although maybe he doesn't get injured as much as Montana and has some other upside? It's all subjective.
However, I'd argue that it's much more difficult to win a Super Bowl as a QB if you have a below average team (compared to the NBA).
Would Bobby Hebert have won multiple SBs if he were the QB of the 49ers? I'll hedge and say that he wins two but throws bone-headed INTs in the other two. Although maybe he doesn't get injured as much as Montana and has some other upside? It's all subjective.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 1:18 pm to tduecen
Elway did for most of his career....
This post was edited on 9/12/16 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 9/12/16 at 1:29 pm to MusclesofBrussels
I'm not crying, and I honestly don't care about Bledsoe's opinion. He was a great QB.
I am just irritated as this "system qb" talking point. If you want to argue it's because Belichick is a talented GM I'm willing to buy that.
Belichick's system is getting talent and finding a way to maximize said talent. He's run 34 base, 43 base, and other weird defenses. The Patriots ran the highest percentage of nickle snaps in the league last year. By all accounts, he turns over the offense to the coordinator, famously not even watching the offensive snaps multiple times in the SB to coach up his defense.
Any football fan worth their salt understands Charlie Weis's offense is different from Josh McDaniel's offense, which is different than Bill O'Brien's offense. If crying means pointing out basic football ideas, then I do not know what to say.
I am just irritated as this "system qb" talking point. If you want to argue it's because Belichick is a talented GM I'm willing to buy that.
Belichick's system is getting talent and finding a way to maximize said talent. He's run 34 base, 43 base, and other weird defenses. The Patriots ran the highest percentage of nickle snaps in the league last year. By all accounts, he turns over the offense to the coordinator, famously not even watching the offensive snaps multiple times in the SB to coach up his defense.
Any football fan worth their salt understands Charlie Weis's offense is different from Josh McDaniel's offense, which is different than Bill O'Brien's offense. If crying means pointing out basic football ideas, then I do not know what to say.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 2:14 pm to Buckeye06
Joe Montana is NOT a Top 5 QB.
If there was ever a 'system QB', it's him. The last couple years he was with the Niners he wasnt even the best QB on the team.
Tom Brady is definitely one of the greatest and is absolutely a Top 5, but he has benefitted outrageously from having the same HC/system his entire career.
Peyton Manning is the exact opposite of being a "system" QB. Peyton WAS the system. Basically an OC on the field. He is the greatest in my opinion.
Of the players Ive seen, in no particular order, my top 5 are Peyton, Marino, Elway, and Brady, and Brees. I think the best QB who played before 1980 was Unitas, based on what I've read and his passing stats compared to other players from his era.
If there was ever a 'system QB', it's him. The last couple years he was with the Niners he wasnt even the best QB on the team.
Tom Brady is definitely one of the greatest and is absolutely a Top 5, but he has benefitted outrageously from having the same HC/system his entire career.
Peyton Manning is the exact opposite of being a "system" QB. Peyton WAS the system. Basically an OC on the field. He is the greatest in my opinion.
Of the players Ive seen, in no particular order, my top 5 are Peyton, Marino, Elway, and Brady, and Brees. I think the best QB who played before 1980 was Unitas, based on what I've read and his passing stats compared to other players from his era.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 2:17 pm to Bench McElroy
I agree. Montana played in an offense that was light years ahead of NFL defenses for a time, and his coach Bill Walsh was an offensive genius. Montana was good, but put him in a different system and his numbers wouldn't be as good.
The same is true to a lesser degree with Brady.
The same is true to a lesser degree with Brady.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 2:48 pm to Bench McElroy
Damn, Bledsoe is still mad from something that happened roughly 15 years ago.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 2:50 pm to Bench McElroy
Elway GOAT.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 4:57 pm to Frank Black
quote:
Montana was good, but put him in a different system and his numbers wouldn't be as good.
You mean like when he went to Kansas City and promptly led the Chiefs to the AFC Championship Game? After he retired the Chiefs wouldn't win another playoff game for 22 years.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 5:00 pm to Bench McElroy
IMO Montana doesn't belong in the same sentence with the other 3. Weak arm, small frail obviously a cerebral system QB who would've struggled anywhere else.
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