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Posted on 6/20/23 at 4:14 pm to BuckyCheese
While Fred is liquored up, we'll also need him to spill the beans on the 2019 Ferrari.
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Posted on 6/20/23 at 5:17 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Why does no one say this about Williams?
I haven’t read replies to this, but despite their current hard times, Williams is a historic F1 team. Haas ain’t ever been shite, and probably never will be. Awful comparison.
Posted on 6/20/23 at 7:15 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Why does no one say this about Williams?
Williams has the second most WCCs after Ferrari. They are part of the fabric and soul of F1, so much so that the new ownership firm kept the team name even though the Williams family is no longer associated with the team. Now that is respect.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 12:13 am to TexasTiger33
Preach!
Posted on 6/21/23 at 6:06 am to TexasTiger33
quote:
Now that is respect
That and they didn't have enough money to throw out all the old merch and buy new merch with a new name.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 10:57 am to TexasTiger33
quote:What caused their downfall?
Williams has the second most WCCs after Ferrari.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 11:25 am to shel311
quote:
What caused their downfall?
Frank Williams caused his own downfall.
Long story short, he refused to pay for talent. Really, it was more about paying to retain talent. Drivers, engineers, managers, or probably even janitors for all I know. He was a tight-arse. The game changed to where you had to spend more money, and he didn't want to do that. The ship had sailed by the time Claire came on board.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 11:26 am to shel311
i was curious too so i did some research. heres the best comment i found summing it all up
quote:
Well, let's just say that the late 90s were not kind to Williams. It pretty much began when Renault quit F1 at the end of 1997 and left Williams at the mercy of old Renault engines rebadged as "Mecachrome". Renault decided they achieved what they wanted to achieve, and since they've been at the top for so long, it was all downhill from there, thus they quit while they were ahead. That year also saw Adrian Newey leave Williams for McLaren. Newey leaving also coincided with new car regulations, and when those come, you really wanna have Newey on board.
Then their title sponsor left since the brand got bought by a company which had just bought an F1 team (Tyrrell, later renamed British American Racing). This left them without their usual huge budget. When you've lost your title sponsor and are down in performance, it becomes much harder to attract new big sponsors. That's the sponsor death spiral. Williams fell victim of that too.
Then came Ferrari and McLaren-Mercedes, who wiped the floor with Williams and the rest of the field for the better part of the late 90's, early 00's.
They had a brief resurgence with BMW, but they were still lacking performance since they had lost a big part of their budget and talent. BMW grew frustrated with Williams since they also wanted a tighter partnership, something akin to what McLaren and Mercedes had, but William's top brass wouldn't have it. Interesting to note is that at the time Williams and BMW had a relationship which sounded very similar to McLaren and Honda earlier this year, with Williams publicly suggesting that BMW's unreliability were to blame for their bad performance. So BMW left Williams for Sauber.
Williams has been struggling ever since, as F1 got more expensive, Williams were never able to go further than a midfield team again. Jumping from engine supplier to engine supplier, they eventually found themselves with some Mercedes lumps, which at least got them to the top of the midfield, but as the engine gap closes and aero becomes more important, their deficiencies become more and more clear.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 11:58 am to BottomlandBrew
Well put.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 12:03 pm to BottomlandBrew
Thanks to both of you for the breakdowns. 
Posted on 6/21/23 at 12:49 pm to BottomlandBrew
quote:
Frank Williams caused his own downfall.
I posted this article previously. Frank's conflict with Mansell was more visible, but it was his treatment of Adrian Newey that was the beginning of the downfall of Williams F1.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-1990s-mistake-williams-never-recovered-from/
Posted on 6/21/23 at 1:12 pm to TouchedTheAxeIn82
quote:
but it was his treatment of Adrian Newey that was the beginning of the downfall of Williams F1.
In a world of bad decisions, this one stands above all else.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 1:18 pm to barry
quote:
In a world of bad decisions, this one stands above all else.
Oh, my post was at the bottom of the page. I'm posting the link again so no one misses it.
the-race.com/formula-1/the-1990s-mistake-williams-never-recovered-from/
Posted on 6/21/23 at 5:20 pm to TouchedTheAxeIn82
Was always my understanding that Frank Williams was a dick.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 6:34 pm to BuckyCheese
I think he was proven that by Italian courts.
Posted on 6/21/23 at 7:53 pm to fightin tigers
There’s a series on Williams on Netflix.
Posted on 6/25/23 at 9:36 am to VABuckeye
Anyone have the F1 tv app? Which version do you have the $27/year or the $80/year?
How is it?
How is it?
Posted on 6/25/23 at 9:58 am to jefforize
quote:in hindsight what a horrible move this was for Williams. If they would have kept him and eventually the BMW engine which was very good, JPM would have been world champion
That year also saw Adrian Newey leave Williams for McLaren.
Posted on 6/26/23 at 6:11 am to UncleFestersLegs
Didn't see this coming
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