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re: Is $1 million a lot of money in 2019?

Posted on 6/23/19 at 7:29 pm to
Posted by tirebiter
7K R&G chile land aka SF
Member since Oct 2006
9282 posts
Posted on 6/23/19 at 7:29 pm to
quote:

Anyway, I digress. If you had $1 million and you were, say, 60. Assuming reasonable health and a life expectancy of 85 at that point, could you retire? You could take, what $40k or maybe $50k (after a particularly good year) and expect that money to take you all the way to 85.

Now, if your house is paid for, with SS kicking in at some future date, maybe, but I certainly would feel comfortable at that point.

Isn't $2 million the new $1 million?

What am I missing?


Is 60 retiring in 2020 or 10-20 years out? Big difference. Have you priced decent health insurance for a current 60 year old? It ain't cheap, especially if you have a spouse. My take on this is $1M today in isolation is not a lot of money, especially at current market levels. $1M in February 2009, that would have been some good $ due to potential market upside and other depressed asset pricing. For a couple without employer private insurance in retirement to bridge the gap to medicare I believe $3M+ in currently invested assets is a reasonable number, + a home with nominal current cost of ownership. I am not talking about a couple with combined sub-$100k pre-tax income. So, 2-couple household, I would want $130k minimum annual income from multiple sources at relatively low draw rates when pulling the plug, plus SSI and pension down the foreseeable line.

As an individual if you will have 2 pensions that are "guaranteed" at 60 (when can these pensions be drawn and are they inflation adjusted?) + SSI (let's just say pensions are taken at 60 and SSI later and pensions provide $35-40k current income and you have $1M in investments, that is a different story for a single person, although the tax impact of pensions, SSI, and tax deferred withdrawals could be expensive from a tax stand point. I have a sibling who started receiving $58k in pension with inflation adjustment at 59 last year + heavily subsidized employer health insurance with little in retirement assets, like $60k, although she does own a home. I would pay $1.3M for the deal she has, yet still be very uncomfortable with only $60k in monetary assets. People might think my numbers are high, but if one is planning an active retirement, trips, etc (excluding expensive boats and vehicles baws love to acquire) I don't think it is off for a low to moderate cost of living location. Health insurance and access to quality health care providers would likely be high on the priority list for me.

My wife and I are only 1 year apart in age, I "retired" at 47 and that's been 8 years. I believe my wife will retire in mid-2020 although she may still work 1-2 days a week, or maybe a consecutive quarter once a year, etc as she doesn't want to completely leave her occupation or lose her license. Our net worth has continued to climb significantly, so I quit being concerned about what is enough or if I need to go back to work, although I do wonder what would happen to my wife if I died suddenly as she is no investor. YMMV.
Posted by castorinho
13623 posts
Member since Nov 2010
82060 posts
Posted on 6/23/19 at 7:52 pm to
quote:

For a couple without employer private insurance in retirement to bridge the gap to medicare I believe $3M+ in currently invested assets is a reasonable number, + a home with nominal current cost of ownership. I am not talking about a couple with combined sub-$100k pre-tax income. So, 2-couple household, I would want $130k minimum annual income from multiple sources at relatively low draw rates when pulling the plug, plus SSI and pension down the foreseeable line.
that's all fine and dandy, but the MAIN thing matters in this specific topic is lifestyle in retirement. Saying you need 130k minimum as a banket statement is just not right.
But yeah, I'd say unsubsidized health insurance premium is probably the one thing that scares me the most.
Posted by MSTiger33
Member since Oct 2007
20402 posts
Posted on 6/23/19 at 9:55 pm to
Depends heavily on living expenses and location. I run a ton of cash flow projections and Montecarlo projections in my job for HNW and UHNW clients. I have seen clients in their 60s with a NW of $20M with $10M liquid flunk Monte Carlo. That makes for an interesting conversation.
Posted by Spirit of Dunson
Member since Mar 2007
23111 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 7:06 am to
quote:

That's not true at all
quote:

Anyone who claims to have more money than the average bear gets downvoted or negativity commented into oblivion
Sing it, brother. I have so many questions, concerns, ideas... but I don't post them since I don't feel like dealing with the downvotes or "subtle brag" bullshite.

As to the OP - I don't think $1M is that much anymore. I'm trying to plan for ~$4M, but I don't expect any pension or SS, and I want to enjoy my retirement.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423382 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 7:09 am to
quote:

But yeah, I'd say unsubsidized health insurance premium is probably the one thing that scares me the most.

is the ACA still based solely off income?

i imagine you could get some cheap, subsidized plans if your "income" was low
Posted by castorinho
13623 posts
Member since Nov 2010
82060 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 7:45 am to
quote:

Sing it, brother. I have so many questions, concerns, ideas... but I don't post them since I don't feel like dealing with the downvotes or "subtle brag" bullshite.
It's unfortunate you feel that way. Young high earners that have come here for advice have received plenty. Just don't post a picture of your rolls royce at a whataburger while mailing sure your watch is in full display, and you'll fine. And even then in eht middle of the downvotes, and subtle brag "bullshite", you'll still get solid advice.
Posted by RedlandsTiger
Greenwell Springs, LA
Member since Jan 2008
2945 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 8:27 am to
quote:

With current fixed lending rates as low as 3.125% and tax deductible interest, that may not be the best use of your money. Dave Ramsey notwithstanding.


If I have $1 million saved, pay the loan off before you retire.
Posted by sacrathetic
Member since May 2019
618 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 8:47 am to
nm
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 2:03 pm
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
119485 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 8:58 am to
quote:

yeah f that. draw down? wrong mentality from get go. you put money to work for you into passive income streams so your principal works for you and you do not draw down anything. cash flow anyone??


What if you have no heirs you are concerned about leaving to?

I don't, and I want to enjoy it. I'm thinking about taking 8% a year till 65, then see where I am, then maybe drop to 7% if it appears I am taking too much. With that said, I'm assuming a life expectancy of no greater than 75 max.
Posted by Decisions
Member since Mar 2015
1488 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 9:56 am to
quote:

With that said, I'm assuming a life expectancy of no greater than 75 max.


This is probably the surest way to live to 100.

In all seriousness I think as someone else said $1 million can be life changing money if you managed it properly through investments and debt reduction, but I don’t think it’s “never work another day” money. I’d be concerned about living off of only that through my retirement (granted I won’t have a pension and highly doubt there will be any SS by then).
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89618 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 10:49 am to
quote:

I have seen clients in their 60s with a NW of $20M with $10M liquid flunk Monte Carlo. That makes for an interesting conversation.


I would tell Monte Carlo to GF itself if I had a balance sheet of $20m, with $10m liquid.

I would print out business cards, "Hi. I'm Ace Midnight. Kindly go frick yourself." I would be giving those to everybody.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89618 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 11:33 am to
quote:

Have you priced decent health insurance for a current 60 year old?


No, and another unique thing about my situation - on paper, my out-of-pocket health costs start to go down at 60.

quote:

As an individual if you will have 2 pensions that are "guaranteed" at 60 (when can these pensions be drawn and are they inflation adjusted?) + SSI (let's just say pensions are taken at 60 and SSI later and pensions provide $35-40k current income and you have $1M in investments, that is a different story for a single person, although the tax impact of pensions, SSI, and tax deferred withdrawals could be expensive from a tax stand point.


Unless things change drastically (I don't use the term lightly), the pensions are guaranteed at 60. I absolutely won't have the $1m by then and will still be in a mortgage.

However, having said that, retiring at 60 "on a whim" - should have me in the ballpark of $70k, with some adjustment for inflation, year-over-year.

My separate retirement fund should be in the $300k/$400k range at that point, with SS coming at 62 (or 67).

I'm absolutely planning to work until age 70. Those numbers jump to about $100k pension, maxxed SS, and closer to $1.5m to $1.75m - and, if all goes well, the mortgage should be retired by then (or nearly so).

But, as many of us know, a plan rarely survives direct contact with the enemy.



Posted by SloaneRanger
Upper Hurstville
Member since Jan 2014
7853 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 1:23 pm to
quote:

quote:
I have seen clients in their 60s with a NW of $20M with $10M liquid flunk Monte Carlo. That makes for an interesting conversation.


I would tell Monte Carlo to GF itself if I had a balance sheet of $20m, with $10m liquid.

I would print out business cards, "Hi. I'm Ace Midnight. Kindly go frick yourself." I would be giving those to everybody.




Yeah, I don't really understand that either. I guess someone with a very high level of spending could flunk with that asset level. But you could live damn well with those kinds of assets.
Posted by nolaks
Member since Dec 2013
1137 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

My wife and I are only 1 year apart in age, I "retired" at 47 and that's been 8 years. I believe my wife will retire in mid-2020 although she may still work 1-2 days a week, or maybe a consecutive quarter once a year, etc as she doesn't want to completely leave her occupati


tirebitr, what was your occupation?
Posted by hungryone
river parishes
Member since Sep 2010
11987 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 1:43 pm to
quote:

that's all fine and dandy, but the MAIN thing matters in this specific topic is lifestyle in retirement. Saying you need 130k minimum as a banket statement is just not right.

Isn't this the truth? I am reminded of my grandma, who was one of the happiest people I have ever known. She never worked outside the home & lived until 94, on my grandfather's small SS payout. Small house, long paid off. Happy life, with minimal possessions & no need to buy (like more shoes, more jewelry, more crap). Traveled some with her kids/grandkids (nothing exotic, mostly to visit various relatives). She probably never had more than $10K liquid during her near-century of existence.

A million is still an incredible amount of money to most people in the world.
Posted by Paul Allen
Montauk, NY
Member since Nov 2007
75268 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 1:54 pm to
I think 2.5-3 million would be the minimum to “never work again” money
Posted by tirebiter
7K R&G chile land aka SF
Member since Oct 2006
9282 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 4:04 pm to
quote:

Unless things change drastically (I don't use the term lightly), the pensions are guaranteed at 60. I absolutely won't have the $1m by then and will still be in a mortgage.

However, having said that, retiring at 60 "on a whim" - should have me in the ballpark of $70k, with some adjustment for inflation, year-over-year.

My separate retirement fund should be in the $300k/$400k range at that point, with SS coming at 62 (or 67).

I'm absolutely planning to work until age 70. Those numbers jump to about $100k pension, maxxed SS, and closer to $1.5m to $1.75m - and, if all goes well, the mortgage should be retired by then (or nearly so).

But, as many of us know, a plan rarely survives direct contact with the enemy.



Sounds like you could retire well before 70, and if there is a history of short life spans in your family (the live to 75 part of your early post) I would be cutting the cord well before 70. Some people might make it to 90 - 105, I do not foresee myself in that category due to past health challenges, and one of my parents died at 66. Good luck to you, you have a good head on your shoulders.
Posted by tirebiter
7K R&G chile land aka SF
Member since Oct 2006
9282 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 5:34 pm to
quote:

tirebitr, what was your occupation?


I worked in finance primarily. It's pretty easy to get a good start when one has no kids and doesn't need aspirational housing/vehicles, good retirement plans/matching, etc. A lot of it was having a high savings rate and when having a strong year saving 50% of income. It helped missing the tech implosion in 2000 and largely missing the worst of 2008/2009. Wife will get a pension and fortunately our investments are roughly 50/50 taxable/tax advantaged (well, until you have to draw upon IRAs, etc.)but have a good bit in Roths and part of her 403b is Roth, + decent sized HSA. Also very fortunate that $16/4-pack of craft beer wasn't around when I used to drink a lot of beer, and not having ridiculous levels of student loans coming out of school. Also made money in RE and currently one of those investment in CRE and an operating company will be a sticking point on any form of ACA subsidy.

People questioning the targeted $130k income mark for 2 relatively young retirees I would ask if they do their own taxes or actually read their returns if prepared by a CPA or other? Combined Fed and State rate was 28% last year and that was largely offsetting a good deal of spouse's work income with max 403b with +50 Yr catch up, 2 max IRA contributions, and max HSA contribution. $4k city/county RE taxes, etc. Taxes start adding up, + insurance/deductibles/co-insurance could be $25k. I actually believe, after a lot of evaluation, we could likely pull a good bit more if market opportunities presented, but don't feel it's prudent in the beginning of what might be a long retirement for my wife as she is a healthy eater and fitness freak.

Whatever number works for someone that's great. I just know in ER for 2 people there will be a disproportionate level of spending on trips and visiting new places and it has to be forecast/covered.
Posted by castorinho
13623 posts
Member since Nov 2010
82060 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 5:51 pm to
quote:

People questioning the targeted $130k income mark for 2 relatively young retirees
nothing wrong with that target at all. Right now we're shooting just under that with retirement between 50 and 55.
I was just pointing out that the average person can live a pretty good life with way less..... as long as they have their debt under control when they get to that point.
Posted by Dawgfanman
Member since Jun 2015
22529 posts
Posted on 6/24/19 at 5:54 pm to
Yes 1 million is a lot of money. More than 15 years pretax salary for the average working American.
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