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3M - What is causing the stock's abysmal performance?

Posted on 5/19/23 at 2:37 pm
Posted by skewbs
Member since Apr 2008
2000 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 2:37 pm
Another thread got me interested in 3M. Simply glancing at a chart shows the stock is at a 10 year low, and more importantly, it has been steadily going down since May 2021 losing over half of its value.

Does anyone follow 3M closely? Is this a blue chip stock that has temporarily fallen out of favor, or do you feel investing now would be catching a falling knife?
This post was edited on 5/19/23 at 2:38 pm
Posted by LSUcam7
FL
Member since Sep 2016
7902 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 2:48 pm to
Legal battles related to MMM chemicals have been a big overhang, struggling sales in result.
Posted by WDE24
Member since Oct 2010
54132 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 2:48 pm to
Don’t they have some significant litigation issues?
Posted by schexyoung
Deaf Valley
Member since May 2008
6534 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 3:17 pm to
Military ear plug lawsuits and potential settlements with vets?
Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
41161 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 3:50 pm to
quote:

Industrial conglomerate 3M's (MMM -0.61%) stock price has steadily declined since peaking in early 2018. Today, the stock is more than 50% removed from its former glory....

The reason? Potentially serious litigation on at least two fronts hangs over the company. The lower share price has pushed the stock's dividend yield to nearly 6%, an all-time high for 3M. Given that 3M has raised its dividend annually for 65 consecutive years, some are questioning whether the streak may soon be broken.

For others, it could be tempting to chase that dividend yield and take a leap of faith in a company that's performed for more than 120 years. But investors should think twice -- as uncertain as the litigation outcomes are right now, they could cast a shadow over investment returns for years to come.

It's bad enough to have one litigation issue to deal with, but 3M has two. It's facing a class action lawsuit from military veterans over hearing loss caused by 3M's allegedly defective earplugs. An initial lawsuit was filed in 2016, in which 3M settled for $9.1 million without admitting liability. But related lawsuits have piled up since then, with more than 200,000 outstanding today.

Bankruptcy is at least a realistic outcome, even if you find it unlikely. Shareholders would likely get wiped out in that scenario. But avoiding bankruptcy isn't necessarily a win either. Hypothetically, assume that 3M ends with $20 billion in total liabilities paid over 20 years ($1 billion annually). That would still create a substantial multi-decade headwind to 3M's earnings growth.
Posted by pioneerbasketball
Team Bunchie
Member since Oct 2005
132235 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 5:54 pm to
I blame ppg
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
30545 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 6:28 pm to
They invested a lot into masking for Covid, particularly N95s. Built entirely new plants for it even. They’re going to lose tons of money on it
Posted by Hayekian serf
GA
Member since Dec 2020
2504 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 7:22 pm to
Their debt/equity ratio is pretty rough.

I know when I’m looking at possible stock purchases, a company’s debt load is important in this climate.

Their earnings growth has been pretty bad as well.
Posted by FLObserver
Jacksonville
Member since Nov 2005
14441 posts
Posted on 5/19/23 at 8:10 pm to
Pretty much every Div investor has thought about buying the dip on this one because of the history but i think long term when i buy DIV stocks. Not sure where this will be in 10 years so i will pass even with this nice Div.
Posted by AMS
Member since Apr 2016
6495 posts
Posted on 5/20/23 at 1:28 am to
quote:

They invested a lot into masking for Covid, particularly N95s. Built entirely new plants for it even. They’re going to lose tons of money on it



regardless of how significant an infection you feel covid is, its currently still around, will be for the foreseeable future, and is routinely tested for in EDs and hospitals. nowadays they are used and discarded after even brief interactions instead of being kept and recycled for a week at a time. they are still being consumed.


also those same factories could make the various other masks or other ppe that are used for numerous medical and non-medical purposes. They are going to be fine with respect to their investment in factories for producing goods. other posters ITT have mentioned more realistic threats to the company.

Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
30545 posts
Posted on 5/20/23 at 4:24 am to
quote:

They are going to be fine with respect to their investment in factories for producing goods. other posters ITT have mentioned more realistic threats to the company.


quote:

Further declines forecasted in 2023

The company will take a pretax restructuring charge in the first quarter of $75 million to $100 million. Sales for the first quarter will be down 10% to 15% from the same quarter a year earlier, the company forecast, while sales for the full year will decline by 2% to 6%.
The company's executives said demand for its disposable face masks is declining, while resurging Covid infections in China is hurting demand there, and periodic plant closures are disrupting production. They cited global market changes, such as its suspension of operations in Russia, and the impact of the strong dollar.

quote:

MINNESOTA - 3M on Tuesday (Apr 26) trimmed its full-year profit outlook as demand for its disposable N95 masks slumped in the face of waning Covid-19 cases and the industrial giant continues to grapple with surging inflation. The biggest United States producer of masks saw a decline in disposable respirator sales amid lifting of coronavirus restrictions.

Oh wow look at that, Upperdecker is right again
This post was edited on 5/20/23 at 4:27 am
Posted by KWL85
Member since Mar 2023
1123 posts
Posted on 5/20/23 at 9:55 am to
Good answers already posted. I fell asleep at the wheel on this one. Have owned it for many years. Should have got out!
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18887 posts
Posted on 5/20/23 at 10:49 am to
That’s a rough write up. Sounds like we should buy puts 12-18 months out.
Posted by GhostOfFreedom
Member since Jan 2021
11671 posts
Posted on 5/20/23 at 9:54 pm to
Check who is shorting the stock and look to see if they have any BCG (Boston Consulting Group) or other high priced consultants in their executive wing and board.

Not kidding.

Check this link for what BCG has been up to.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/u0uemq/can_we_make_a_list_of_the_companies_that_bcg_has/
Posted by Pauvetibete
Member since Apr 2022
510 posts
Posted on 5/20/23 at 11:39 pm to
As the guy who started the thread that got you interested, there's quite a bit wrong with 3M if you do some digging. 2 of the major issues are 2 lawsuits they are facing. Ear Plugs for military usage, and AFFF chemicals. AFFF is the stuff firefighters use to put out oil or refinery fires. Aqueous Film Forming Foam. Apparently the major component is pretty bad for your health, and 3M used this stuff in a few operations. Either one of these lawsuits could possible bankrupt the company, although not likely.

They also committed HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS into the covid prevention market. That hasn't worked out since Biden was elected.
Posted by Pauvetibete
Member since Apr 2022
510 posts
Posted on 6/2/23 at 2:28 pm to
Pretty big update. [link=(PFAS Settlement)]https://www.reuters.com/world/us/3m-strikes-tentative-pollution-settlement-least-10-bln-bloomberg-news-2023-06-02/[/link]

Up 8% today on this news alone.
Posted by lofty
Member since Dec 2019
404 posts
Posted on 6/2/23 at 5:01 pm to
Good cause I have a ton, to me, of 3m stock .....
Posted by FreddieMac
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2010
20968 posts
Posted on 6/2/23 at 6:18 pm to
Lawsuits, been watching this one myself. I like the dividend stocks.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33357 posts
Posted on 6/3/23 at 9:26 am to
On top of the earplugs, now this one:

"Forever chemicals" could cost $143B
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