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Message
re: The Final Series: A Series of Pictures
Posted on 10/5/10 at 10:50 am to just me
Posted on 10/5/10 at 10:50 am to just me
quote:
Look at the inexhaustible supply of ignorance that litters this thread.
Mostly from you. Your entire argument is based upon them trying to get 2 plays off. In case you cant see they did attempt that and failed. The best thing that could have happened given the history of this staff and QB to conduct a two minute offense the best possible scenario would be to stop the clock and get everybody on the same page and then try to win the game.
1
Posted on 10/5/10 at 10:51 am to Tiger Vision
A well prepared team could actually substitute after the initial play and still run two well organized plays after the 2nd down run. The problem is that there was no plan for 3rd down because Les Miles admitted to Jordy that he was certain that JJ would score. Look at the photos, the subs did not start coming into the game until about 8-9 seconds had elapsed after JJ was tackled. If they were well coached, the subs would have entered the game as soon as JJ was tackled and LSU could have run 2 more plays.
Because of the Chinese fire drill, at some point common sense needs to take over and the ball should have been spiked. You don't even need to be in a good formation. Just line up enough guys on the line of scrimmage and spike the ball.
Because of the Chinese fire drill, at some point common sense needs to take over and the ball should have been spiked. You don't even need to be in a good formation. Just line up enough guys on the line of scrimmage and spike the ball.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 10:54 am to Choupique19
1. Jefferson should not have been in the game, given his inability to process what he sees, and/or understand the next play called (if there was one.)
2. With less than :30 left and no time outs, you don't start running in subs, which wastes time. You call a play that can stop the clock IF it's unsuccessful. THEN you substitute.
Coaching fail.
2. With less than :30 left and no time outs, you don't start running in subs, which wastes time. You call a play that can stop the clock IF it's unsuccessful. THEN you substitute.
Coaching fail.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 10:55 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:Dude. Less than one second? Do you refuse to accept the facts?
His attempt to trash Hebert in this instance, based upon the assumption that Jefferson would have called for the ball, within the span of less than one second basically, is where his logic and reasoning break down.
quote:Then use what you KNOW happened. Don't go making statements about "less than one second."
We can only go off what we KNOW happened, not the assumption just me's making.
quote:Why does the magic moment occurs at 3 seconds? Ridley is still getting set at 3 seconds.
I just still say, with less than 3 seconds left on the clock he simply HAS to anticipate that a snap is forthcoming, whether he "calls for it" or not.
And why is completely unreasonable to think that Jefferson would have called for the ball with 2 seconds left or even 1 second left?
And isn't Jefferson at least entitled to glance at the defense he will be throwing against on that play before he calls for the ball? Particularly when that defense has 13 players?
Posted on 10/5/10 at 10:56 am to just me
the video of the first jj play - shows that jj failed to properly follow his lead block - ridley; jj should have been on ridley's right hip - instead of 3-4 yds behind; all we needed was 3yds for td - play was undoubtedly designed for ridley to be followed closely by jj - and just punch in across the goal line; as it was, jj was too deep in backfield - and by the time he hit the hole - ut's linebacker and defensive end had recovered to close the hole; again, jj's running leaves a lot to be desired; had jj done what he was supposed to do - no clock meltdown, no chaos, no controversy
first 8sc tells story
LINK
first 8sc tells story
LINK
This post was edited on 10/5/10 at 11:00 am
Posted on 10/5/10 at 10:58 am to just me
Agreed. Fails by the coaching staff were:
1. Subbing JJ for JL, which effectively told the defense that a run was coming.
2. Failing to send JJ in the game with two plays already called.
3. Trying to sub players with the clock running.
Listening to Les and watching the offense over the last few years, it has become obvious that GC does not stay a few plays ahead, like in chess. There is no reason it takes as long as it does to get plays in.
Once we got near the red zone on Saturday, he should have had a few plays in his head ready to call in case we found ourselves in the situation we were in. He was unprepared, and there is no excuse for that. Even worse, our head coach didn't simply call something himself from the sideline.
1. Subbing JJ for JL, which effectively told the defense that a run was coming.
2. Failing to send JJ in the game with two plays already called.
3. Trying to sub players with the clock running.
Listening to Les and watching the offense over the last few years, it has become obvious that GC does not stay a few plays ahead, like in chess. There is no reason it takes as long as it does to get plays in.
Once we got near the red zone on Saturday, he should have had a few plays in his head ready to call in case we found ourselves in the situation we were in. He was unprepared, and there is no excuse for that. Even worse, our head coach didn't simply call something himself from the sideline.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 10:59 am to mtntiger
quote:Yes, yes, yes.
Agreed. Fails by the coaching staff were: 1. Subbing JJ for JL, which effectively told the defense that a run was coming. 2. Failing to send JJ in the game with two plays already called. 3. Trying to sub players with the clock running. Listening to Les and watching the offense over the last few years, it has become obvious that GC does not stay a few plays ahead, like in chess. There is no reason it takes as long as it does to get plays in. Once we got near the red zone on Saturday, he should have had a few plays in his head ready to call in case we found ourselves in the situation we were in. He was unprepared, and there is no excuse for that. Even worse, our head coach didn't simply call something himself from the sideline.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:00 am to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:Hindsight.
Were we able to run two plays? No. CLocking it would have alowed us to run a well planned and executed play, not the chaos we tried.
We should have and could have been able to run two plays if the staff had signalled in a pass play with the players in the game on second down.
Or even better, Jefferson should have been sent in with two plays.
quote:But Jefferson did not have time to clock it because subs were running onto the field.
Obvioulsy a timely pass attempt on 3rd is the preferrable alterantive, however, clocking it is prefferable to what happened.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:00 am to just me
quote:
Of course, for third down, you have to use the players that are on the field after the second down play. If you want to substitute, you can sub when the clock is stopped after third down.
BINGO.
WTF were Crowton/Miles thinking? They should have sent JJ in with two plays: the run on 2nd & Goal and then a quick pass if he failed to score on 2nd down. And with the quick pass, he would have been instructed to throw it away instead of forcing a bad throw if his man wasn't open. Instead Crowton/Miles sent JJ in with one play and then did mass subs and sent in a new play. Total effin chaos. Totally inexcusable. A total waste of 25 precious seconds and 2 possible downs.
By the way, Alleva's comments are very telling:
quote:
LSU athletic director Joe Alleva has heard the recent boos in Tiger Stadium and the crescendo of criticism directed toward Miles, but said the end of the season is the better time to discuss it.
"I'm disappointed with the last 36 seconds of (Saturday's) game," Alleva said. "I'm really happy that we won the game and we're 5-0 and that's all that really needs to be said right now. We still have seven more games to play."
In other words, Alleva is concerned (rightly so) and if things take a turn for the worse in the next 7 games, I think he'll be having a serious chat with Les about axing Crowton after the season is over. Those 36 seconds may have been the last straw and Les is going to have to get a handle on the offensive game management and find someone new to coach the offense and QBs.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:01 am to just me
quote:
Dude. Less than one second? Do you refuse to accept the facts?
The clock was on 3 moving to 2 when Hebert snapped the ball. If Jefferson had not "called for the ball" by that point, how much more time does he have to execute the complete process of "calling for the ball"?
quote:
Then use what you KNOW happened.
This is it: The clock was on 3 moving to 2 when Hebert snapped the ball.
You're speculating on what Jefferson would have done after that - within the span of less than 3 seconds
quote:
Why does the magic moment occurs at 3 seconds? Ridley is still getting set at 3 seconds.
And why is completely unreasonable to think that Jefferson would have called for the ball with 2 seconds left or even 1 second left?
Reasonable reaction time.
quote:
And isn't Jefferson at least entitled to glance at the defense he will be throwing against on that play before he calls for the ball? Particularly when that defense has 13 players?
If there's enough time left on the clock for reasonable reaction time. It's hard to argue 3 seconds is not approaching the outer limits of that.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:02 am to RedPop4
quote:
And this is why everyone is on the coaching staff's back.
1. Changing the quarterback with 25 seconds left to play.
2. Not having a play for him when that play ended, or having too much of a play. You don't start running substitution packages in at that point, when you have the wrong QB on the field.
This is what has me the most upset. I understand his logic (go ahead and let the insults fly) from his post game conference in that they liked matchups in certain personel. However, this situation should be standard and not situational. End of the game, no timeouts, and you get inside the 5. The QB should have 3 plays in mind.
1. If you end up inside the two, sneak it in. This would have worked because they only had 4 DL on the field and if we line up in even an I, we would have hadenough push to get two yards, at least I think.
2. If you are inside the 4, HB run. Inside the tackles preferrably in a formation spreading the D.
3. Back corner fade thrown as a jump ball. If all is covered and you can't run it in, throw the ball away and you stil have two more plays.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:02 am to just me
quote:
Just Me
Again, I am not in the blame jefferson camp (I blame the coaches).
That being said:
1) Jefferson claps before the ball has snapped. This is consistent with Miles' quote that he asked for the ball. Yes Hebert did not hear him, but on several instances during the season, the ball is snapped on that clap (they mix it up). You are assuming based on nothing that Miles is lieing to support your hypothesis. Jefferson clapping is consistent with miles saying he called for the snap. What makes you think otherwise?
2) No matter what play is going to be called, Jefferson will have to be behind center. He should have immediately done so. He stood beside the line and waited... in fact at the 12 second mark he actually starts walking towards the sidelines. He has the cranial capacity to look to the sidelines and go towards his position. He did not. There is no excuse that it took 22 seconds from the tackle for him to get behind center.
3) Jefferson's foot is not on the hash mark when the ball is snapped. Not even close.
This post was edited on 10/5/10 at 11:05 am
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:03 am to just me
quote:
Jefferson should have been sent in with two plays to execute or he shouldn't have been sent in at all. And sending in that many subs on 3rd down with the clock still running is the height of stupidity.
FIFY
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:04 am to just me
Why does everyone keep blaming Crowton? JJ was supposed to score on 2nd down. No other play was needed. Duh.
The Wizard
The Wizard
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:04 am to Y.A. Tittle
An undeniable truth of life is that you never try to outsmart common sense. Especially when you're not very smart. That is excatly what happened at the end of the game!
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:06 am to just me
quote:
Jefferson had no opportunity to clock the ball. Moreover, clocking the ball with more than 15 seconds was clearly not the right call. (I'd argue that clocking the ball with more than 8 seconds was not the right call.)
he should have clocked it knowing that the coaches didnt send him in with a 2nd play.
It wasn't his fault. And yes, they had time to run a play, but without one called, he should have got the guys to the line and spike the ball.
i didnt read this whole thread, im not sure if that was said. But that would have been the right move in that situation
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:06 am to just me
didn't read one post of the thread, but on the last picture you can see the back judge reaching for his flag.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:06 am to just me
The problem with this series of events was not Jefferson, but the coaching. Clearly 2 plays should have been called before running the option with Jefferson. A second play with the same personnell could have been run at about the 15 second mark. Whether it is a spike or a pass play is immaterial. You can't try to change the personnel while the clock is running.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:08 am to just me
I have a question for Just Me:
Read this quote from Les Miles:
LINK
Please answer this question about you smart QB JJ:
If he already called for the ball what did he gain by looking again at the clock?
-He wasn't going to get more time.
-It wasn't going to make the center snap it quicker.
He had absolutely nothing to gain by looking to the clock after calling for the ball. So then why did he do it?
Read this quote from Les Miles:
quote:
The good news is we get that play on the field and we are ready to run the play, the quarterback calls for the ball but no one can hear. The quarterback then goes to look at the clock and loses sight of the ball and there is the fumble.
LINK
Please answer this question about you smart QB JJ:
If he already called for the ball what did he gain by looking again at the clock?
-He wasn't going to get more time.
-It wasn't going to make the center snap it quicker.
He had absolutely nothing to gain by looking to the clock after calling for the ball. So then why did he do it?
This post was edited on 10/5/10 at 11:09 am
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:08 am to just me
quote:
just me
Since you feel like playing defense attorney, defend the following questions
1. Why was Jefferson not ready for the snap and/or lined up directly behind the center
2. Why was Jefferson standing outside the tackles with 19 seconds left instead of calling an audible? The subs excuse isn't legit. It's the QBs job to wave the subs off the field in that situation. He HAS to be able to understand the game situation even if the offensive coordinator is too stupid to.
3. Why did he fall on the ball?
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