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re: LSU has to show Les Miles the money: James Varney
Posted on 12/15/12 at 9:40 am to Tiger2763
Posted on 12/15/12 at 9:40 am to Tiger2763
quote:
Look! You guys don't take this the wrong way. As I said Les is a good coach but he loses on average 2-3 conference games per year. Will 2-3 loses get us a championship? Occasionally a two loss team has done, we did in fact. But on average it won't get it done.
You're dumb. Since Miles was hired, NO SEC TEAM HAS MORE WINS THAN LSU and only 3 other fbs schools have more wins. Get a clue. Do you know how rare undefeated seasons are?
0
Posted on 12/15/12 at 9:47 am to Fabius
quote:
The disatisfaction with Miles doesn't stem from his won/loss record, but from the perception that his offensive failings are holding the team back from even greater accomplishments. Consider the following numbers (rankings are at the end of regular season):
4 out of the top 5 LSU offenses ,EVER,are Miles coaches teams.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 9:55 am to Choctaw
Choctaw, you are obviously far more superior with respect to knowledge of the college football game than I, as evidenced by your >35,000 posts on an Internet message board, so you should be able to blow holes in anything I stated in my message correct? Believe me it is possible to be an LSU diehard and Saban fan simultaneously. Like you I have had season tickets for a while (22 yrs), donate to the LSU Foundation, member of TAF, have multiple degrees from LSU, and sit on various executive academic boards of the university. I use my two hands to support this university to the best of my ability. I am just stating facts as they exist. Do you consider Bud Grant or Marv Levy elite coaches as compared to Tom Landry? Or Jimmy Johnson?? In sports reaching the ultimate prize makes one elite. To quote Nick Saban, "To be great, one has to get over being good". I do not hate Saban just cause he is coach of our greatest rival. He left us for Miami, not Bama. Do the fans and 2005 Seniors at Oklahoma State see Miles as this great character, loyalty above all else coach that many on here do or as many on here see Saban? Think about it.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 10:07 am to Dubaitiger
quote:
He is a good coach-not elite
He has an elite record, a-hole.
Just shut up!
Posted on 12/15/12 at 10:10 am to DIGGY
You are entitled to your opinion, no problem there.
This hypothetical makes little sense to me.
Les Miles leaving Oklahoma State for Oklahoma, after a brief stint in the NFL, would be more like Saban to Miami to Bama. Saban knew what he was doing, he just didn't mind burning the bridge with LSU.
Saban has demonstrated that to build up Alabama he will tear down LSU. To me, that makes him a villain. Again, you are entitled to your own opinion on the matter.
This hypothetical makes little sense to me.
quote:
Do the fans and 2005 Seniors at Oklahoma State see Miles as this great character, loyalty above all else coach that many on here do or as many on here see Saban? Think about it.
Les Miles leaving Oklahoma State for Oklahoma, after a brief stint in the NFL, would be more like Saban to Miami to Bama. Saban knew what he was doing, he just didn't mind burning the bridge with LSU.
Saban has demonstrated that to build up Alabama he will tear down LSU. To me, that makes him a villain. Again, you are entitled to your own opinion on the matter.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 10:39 am to BasilBogomil
BasilBogomil we all have opinions and who is to say which is most correct. Thoughtful intellect and discussion is a welcome relief from trading barbs for expressing ones opinion. I would like to hear your amplification in regards to comments concerning Saban "burning bridges" and " tearing down" with regards to LSU. Perhaps there are things I am unaware of regarding his departure. I added the Miles and Ok St. Comment because that situation seems analogous to Saban leaving LSU for a perceived better opportunity.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 11:45 am to Tiger2763
quote:
With the exception of last year, he has lost between 2 and 5 games each year to SEC opponents since 2007!
Didn't we win the BCS Championship in 2007? I guess that is not acceptable.
quote:
...we will never consistently win the SEC by losing that many games every year to conference opponents, much less a BCSCG. There's no use kidding ourselves.
You are kidding yourself if you think any team is going to consistently win the SEC--not going to happen.
Bama will be the toughest win as long as Saban is there, but what coach do you think could consistently beat Saban at Bama?
The SEC West Division, by itself, is tougher than virtually any BCS Conference, and LSU has the toughest every-year schedule in the SEC West and SEC Conference for that matter.
As long as we have to play Florida every year, the best to hope for is to win the SEC West two or three times a decade.
If and when A&M over takes the Longhorns with in-state recruiting, the Aggies, Bama,and LSU will share the vast majority of SEC West titles. I also expect Auburn and Arkansas to be tough games on a seasonal basis.
In my opinon, Miles will have to improve our passing game if he wants to continue his great success at LSU, and it appears Miles in well on his way to that goal.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 11:53 am to DIGGY
quote:
He left us for Miami, not Bama
He left LSU cause LSU was no longer good enough for him.
If you want to state facts, that should be your 1st.
I don't "hate" Nick. He's a fine coach and other than his seeming to look down at a lot of people, I don't have any problem with him at all.
He made a choice, one that he had every right to make, and that choice was kick LSU to the curb in 12-04.
It's amusing/telling to me that 8 yrs later and after an 8 yr period which has seen every accomplishment Nick had at LSU equaled or even bettered by Les...we still have some who can't stop talking bout NS.
Someone posted and I agree, Nick made LSU very good and Les has made LSU great/elite.
We can debate coaches till those cows come home, but LSU under LM has been an elite program and leads the SEC and big time college football in wins since 05. You don't have those kinda elite results over a 8 yr period of time without having a damn good HC whether you want to label him elite or not.
Why that's not good enough for some and why a coach who decided LSU wasn't good enough for him seems to loved to almost freaky levels by some here is both a mystery to me and just plain sad.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 2:29 pm to DIGGY
quote:
BasilBogomil we all have opinions and who is to say which is most correct. Thoughtful intellect and discussion is a welcome relief from trading barbs for expressing ones opinion. I would like to hear your amplification in regards to comments concerning Saban "burning bridges" and " tearing down" with regards to LSU. Perhaps there are things I am unaware of regarding his departure. I added the Miles and Ok St. Comment because that situation seems analogous to Saban leaving LSU for a perceived better opportunity.
Here is my take:
Saban came back to the SEC West because he knew that recruiting territory from his days at LSU, the gulf states essentially. He hires a Louisiana guy, Burton Burns, as a coach and starts working on recruiting Louisiana using his contacts (high school coaches, etc.) from his time at LSU. Now, it is debatable exactly how much success he has had recruiting LA, but make no mistake, he is trying to tear down the fence he built around the state, and, therefore, LSU.
I would say that constitutes burning a bridge. I don't think anyone will be inviting him back for any 2003 reunions. He is the enemy now.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 3:56 pm to Dubaitiger
quote:
He is a good coach-not elite.
He is generally considered one of the top coaches in the country so that in itself makes him 'elite'. It's not like we could go out and just get a better coach. If he moved on we would be f'ed so we better show him the money.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 4:33 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
Someone posted and I agree, Nick made LSU very good and Les has made LSU great/elite.
lolwut
You can't have it both ways, if LSU wasn't elite when Saban was here, they aren't now.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 5:48 pm to DIGGY
DIGGY
LSU has to show Les Miles the money: James Varney
Choctaw, you are obviously far more superior with respect to knowledge of the college football game than I, as evidenced by your >35,000 posts on an Internet message board, so you should be able to blow holes in anything I stated in my message correct? Believe me it is possible to be an LSU diehard and Saban fan simultaneously. Like you I have had season tickets for a while (22 yrs), donate to the LSU Foundation, member of TAF, have multiple degrees from LSU, and sit on various executive academic boards of the university. I use my two hands to support this university to the best of my ability. I am just stating facts as they exist. Do you consider Bud Grant or Marv Levy elite coaches as compared to Tom Landry? Or Jimmy Johnson?? In sports reaching the ultimate prize makes one elite. To quote Nick Saban, "To be great, one has to get over being good". I do not hate Saban just cause he is coach of our greatest rival. He left us for Miami, not Bama. Do the fans and 2005 Seniors at Oklahoma State see Miles as this great character, loyalty above all else coach that many on here do or as many on here see Saban? Think about it.
---------------------
Well said Diggy!
I do think Miles is a really good coach but always seems to find a way to lose 2-3 games per year. Last year was almost the beginning of something great but we know how that ended. I think our fan base and perhaps coaching staff and even the players have come to expect 2-3 loses and it has become part of everyone's unconcious expectations.
It reminds me of the Saints in the 90's and before. We had season tickets there also for years. In so many games we managed to find a way to lose when no one thought it was possible. Of course the Tigers aren't that bad but I believe we do sorta expect to lose a couple every season.
We have got to find a way to win those games we aren't supposed to win, those games where we shouldn't win. Otherwise we may as well be those Saints of the 80-90's. I'm afraid that is the mindset we are cultivating especially given what has happened the last two seasons.
The look on our fans faces in the last moments of the Alabama game had me right back in the Superdome, I kid you not. Everyone was in shock except the Tide fans. For them it seemed like they knew they were going to pull it out. They refused to lose! We are on a very slippery slope here IMO.
Just my two cents.
LSU has to show Les Miles the money: James Varney
Choctaw, you are obviously far more superior with respect to knowledge of the college football game than I, as evidenced by your >35,000 posts on an Internet message board, so you should be able to blow holes in anything I stated in my message correct? Believe me it is possible to be an LSU diehard and Saban fan simultaneously. Like you I have had season tickets for a while (22 yrs), donate to the LSU Foundation, member of TAF, have multiple degrees from LSU, and sit on various executive academic boards of the university. I use my two hands to support this university to the best of my ability. I am just stating facts as they exist. Do you consider Bud Grant or Marv Levy elite coaches as compared to Tom Landry? Or Jimmy Johnson?? In sports reaching the ultimate prize makes one elite. To quote Nick Saban, "To be great, one has to get over being good". I do not hate Saban just cause he is coach of our greatest rival. He left us for Miami, not Bama. Do the fans and 2005 Seniors at Oklahoma State see Miles as this great character, loyalty above all else coach that many on here do or as many on here see Saban? Think about it.
---------------------
Well said Diggy!
I do think Miles is a really good coach but always seems to find a way to lose 2-3 games per year. Last year was almost the beginning of something great but we know how that ended. I think our fan base and perhaps coaching staff and even the players have come to expect 2-3 loses and it has become part of everyone's unconcious expectations.
It reminds me of the Saints in the 90's and before. We had season tickets there also for years. In so many games we managed to find a way to lose when no one thought it was possible. Of course the Tigers aren't that bad but I believe we do sorta expect to lose a couple every season.
We have got to find a way to win those games we aren't supposed to win, those games where we shouldn't win. Otherwise we may as well be those Saints of the 80-90's. I'm afraid that is the mindset we are cultivating especially given what has happened the last two seasons.
The look on our fans faces in the last moments of the Alabama game had me right back in the Superdome, I kid you not. Everyone was in shock except the Tide fans. For them it seemed like they knew they were going to pull it out. They refused to lose! We are on a very slippery slope here IMO.
Just my two cents.
This post was edited on 12/15/12 at 5:51 pm
Posted on 12/15/12 at 6:01 pm to Tiger2763
quote:
We are on a very slippery slope here IMO.
Sure must be a long long long slope because he's been here 8 years. One loss last year, two this year, after 8 years of being here. Two losses his first year here. That slope is so gradual it seems to be level.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 6:55 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
You can't have it both ways, if LSU wasn't elite when Saban was here, they aren't now.
When Nick left, LSU was like 4th in the SEC in wins during his time here and maybe #8 in the nation in wins.
Now, no team in the SEC/BCS has more wins than LSU since Nick departed.
LSU had 2 Top 10 finishes during Nicks stay and since he left we have had 6.
LSU had one 11 win team during the Saban time and since he left we have had, or will have, 6.
I'm not trying to belittle Nick in any way, but if you can't figure out which of those two accomplishments equates to elite level more than the other then, shame on you.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 7:09 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
We are on a very slippery slope here IMO.
Sure must be a long long long slope because he's been here 8 years
It's funny that "very slippery slope" hasn't stopped LSU from being ranked in the Top 10 since bout Oct., 2010.
This post was edited on 12/15/12 at 7:11 pm
Posted on 12/15/12 at 8:09 pm to Tiger2763
There is a huge problem with this faculty vs sports argument. How many of the teachers there are in the top 5 in their field of study among the entire country?
As soon as someone points out an LSU teacher that is in the same level or even conversation as les Miles is in his field, then I will give their argument some attention. Until that time...please tell them to STFU as I always do.
As soon as someone points out an LSU teacher that is in the same level or even conversation as les Miles is in his field, then I will give their argument some attention. Until that time...please tell them to STFU as I always do.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 8:30 pm to Lonnie4LSU
Lonnie4LSU
LSU has to show Les Miles the money: James Varney
quote:
You can't have it both ways, if LSU wasn't elite when Saban was here, they aren't now.
When Nick left, LSU was like 4th in the SEC in wins during his time here and maybe #8 in the nation in wins.
Now, no team in the SEC/BCS has more wins than LSU since Nick departed.
LSU had 2 Top 10 finishes during Nicks stay and since he left we have had 6.
LSU had one 11 win team during the Saban time and since he left we have had, or will have, 6.
I'm not trying to belittle Nick in any way, but if you can't figure out which of those two accomplishments equates to elite level more than the other then, shame on you.
---------------------------
Since you appear to be about 18 years old its not your fault you don't recall the fact our program was completely in the ditch when Saban arrived and had been for decades. Many here forget what he did to bring us out of the dark ages.
What many are saying here is that if you are satisfied with top 10 finishes most seasons and 2-3 loses each and every season, then I guess Miles is your guy. As evidenced by our two loss miracle in 2007 we can get into and win the CF but we need others to falter in order for us to do it.
As had already been said in the thread several times we are consistently a 2-3 loss team every year. True we did lose just one last year but have also lost 3 & 5 in other seasons under Miles. His average is >2 loses per year.
With this record we do not control our own destiny when it comes to championships! That's all I'm saying.
If things don't improve we will have to be very lucky to ever win one it seems since we always seem to find a way to lose 2-3 per year AND now seen to be unable to win the Big games as we've see on the last two years. Where am I wrong here?
LSU has to show Les Miles the money: James Varney
quote:
You can't have it both ways, if LSU wasn't elite when Saban was here, they aren't now.
When Nick left, LSU was like 4th in the SEC in wins during his time here and maybe #8 in the nation in wins.
Now, no team in the SEC/BCS has more wins than LSU since Nick departed.
LSU had 2 Top 10 finishes during Nicks stay and since he left we have had 6.
LSU had one 11 win team during the Saban time and since he left we have had, or will have, 6.
I'm not trying to belittle Nick in any way, but if you can't figure out which of those two accomplishments equates to elite level more than the other then, shame on you.
---------------------------
Since you appear to be about 18 years old its not your fault you don't recall the fact our program was completely in the ditch when Saban arrived and had been for decades. Many here forget what he did to bring us out of the dark ages.
What many are saying here is that if you are satisfied with top 10 finishes most seasons and 2-3 loses each and every season, then I guess Miles is your guy. As evidenced by our two loss miracle in 2007 we can get into and win the CF but we need others to falter in order for us to do it.
As had already been said in the thread several times we are consistently a 2-3 loss team every year. True we did lose just one last year but have also lost 3 & 5 in other seasons under Miles. His average is >2 loses per year.
With this record we do not control our own destiny when it comes to championships! That's all I'm saying.
If things don't improve we will have to be very lucky to ever win one it seems since we always seem to find a way to lose 2-3 per year AND now seen to be unable to win the Big games as we've see on the last two years. Where am I wrong here?
Posted on 12/15/12 at 8:45 pm to Tiger2763
quote:
Since you appear to be about 18 years old its not your fault you don't recall the fact our program was completely in the ditch when Saban arrived and had been for decades. Many here forget what he did to bring us out of the dark ages.
Since you appear to be 12 years old I can understand that you don't know that it was DiNardo that began the rise of LSU football. He started the climb. It's too bad that he couldn't handle the rare air at that altitude, but let's not forget who started the ascent.
quote:
Many here forget what he did to bring us out of the dark ages.
See above.
I'll skip the rest of your juvenile copy-cat tirade. It's old news, been stated here tons of times and frankly, boring.
quote:
Where am I wrong here?
Trying to play with the big boys.
You whimper and whine but offer no solutions. Come back when you are better at forensics.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 8:52 pm to Tiger2763
quote:Where am I wrong here?
Tiger2763
how many lotteries have you won?
sooo, how do you know the future?
the only thing wrong here is your choice of facts.
if you chose facts that show we will win the n.c for the next ten years, you would be just as wrong as you are now.
you are a fear based individual. you think you know the future and your intellect actually tells you that you are soooo smart that you can predict the future.
it is fun to watch sooo many negatigahs base their opinions on pure conjecture because of their intellect. many are trapped by their supposed genius.
you can complain as much as you want about the past, but to believe you can predict the future of lsu/les miles football is insane.
dude, u is crazy.
Posted on 12/15/12 at 10:05 pm to stho381
quote:
stho381
quote:
Lastly, for you Saban-lovers, he's the only CFB coach to beat him multiple times.
Not true...he doesn't even have the most wins against him either. That is good ole Tommy Tuberville. But I agree with your premise entirely.
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