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re: LSU Football In 1969. Why Did We Not Play For The NC?

Posted on 4/25/22 at 10:37 am to
Posted by bishop
Maiden, North Carolina
Member since Jun 2004
2371 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 10:37 am to
I have a copy of that game. My dad sacked Joe Thiesman twice. Once for 5 yards and the other for 13 yards.

I got it from Notre Dame. They sent me the coaches film and radio broadcast. I gave it to my dad when he retired from Exxon.
Posted by I-59 Tiger
Vestavia Hills, AL
Member since Sep 2003
36703 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 11:16 am to
a lot of moving parts back then that quite frankly,do not make any sense today.Defending champion Ohio State was that year's "this is the best team ever." However, not only was the Big 10 tied to the Rose Bowl, there was a "no-repeat" rule,meaning Ohio State wasn't going to a bowl that year.

So with the combination of conference tie-ins (SWC to the Cotton) Pac 8 to the Rose, Big 10 "representative" going to the Rose, there was really no way to put a title game together. (Three years earlier Notre Dame was consensus national Champion without playing in a bowl.)

But the lynchpin was the weekend of November 15/16. Saturday night the 15th was when bowl invitations could be officially sent out.Unbeaten and third ranked Tennessee was all set to go to the Orange Bowl. The Orange was committed to Tennessee even with a Vols' loss to Ole Miss in Jackson that afternoon "provided its not a blowout." But Ole Miss won, 38-0 to end any discussion as to what "blowout" means.

Oddly enough,Notre Dame preferred the Orange over the Cotton (and Sugar,too) The Irish would limit themselves only to those New Year's Bowls. Notre Dame had beaten Tulane in New Orleans a few weeks earlier and didn't want a return trip so soon.

Getting back to LSU, the Tigers for whatever reason, were never on the Orange's radar.The Sugar and Cotton (as well as Sun and Bluebonnet) had courted LSU.LSU put its attention in the Cotton's basket. What's odd is as revered at the 1969 team is, they only rose to #8 in the polls.The loss to Ole Miss knocked LSU to #12, where they stood the afternoon of Novemeber 15th. Notre Dame was 9th,with a tie to #5 Southern Cal and loss to #10 Purdue.

The Cotton was sitting pretty good as the Southwest Conference had listened to ABC's Beano Cook's idea that summer to move the Texas-Arkansas game from mid-October to the first week of December,hoping for national title implications if Ohio State were to stumble. Texas had crushed Tennessee, 36-13 in the Cotton the previous year so the Vols were not considered prior to the Ole Miss fiasco. Texas' Darrell Royal was courting unbeaten Penn State for a possible title game should Ohio State lose.

But Paterno decided he would rather go to the Orange Bowl for two years in a row rather than play for a national title. The Sugar moved along,also for the second year in a row, to host the SWC runner-up which had come down to Texas and Arkansas in 1968,as well.

After Ole Miss 38-0 win over Tennessee, the Orange took Missouri (who was ranked ahead of Notre Dame) to face Penn State. The Sugar took Ole Miss to face the Texas-Arkansas loser. The Cotton took Notre Dame, ranked ahead of LSU. After having given the Sugar a cold shoulder LSU did all it could (including recruit Gov.McKeithen to lobby the Sugar)but the Sugar said we wanted you earlier plus Ole Miss beat you,or something to the effect.

The Peach Bowl did hold out for LSU for several days but would not commit to wait for the Tulane-LSU game. Its a shame LSU wasn't more receptive to the Sun or Bluebonnet. LSU wasn't going to be voted #1 even with a win over Texas in the Cotton. A game vs either Nebraska in the Sun or Houston in the Astro-Bluebonnet would have provided a great match up..
Posted by TX Tiger
at home
Member since Jan 2004
35632 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 11:23 am to
quote:

No championship games.
Texas vs ND WAS the championship game.

quote:

Just bowl games and AP voters.
And nothing has changed. A committee, rather than AP, votes on who plays in the CFP. TCU says hi.
Posted by QB
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2013
4214 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 11:28 am to
I was a senior at LSU. As others have said well, this is the reason I hate ND without remorse. LSU was really ready to play the top rushing team in the country with the top rushing defense in the country. The entire country, as I recall, was looking forward to that matchup, and why, as I understood it, that LSU officials turned down offers from other bowls.
Truly one of LSU's all time great teams, and LSU truly got screwed.....mostly by the arrogance of Notre Dame.
That is why I ran on the field, with my wife, for the first time when LSU smoke ND in Tiger Stadium on a memorable Saturday night!
Posted by bearhc
Member since Sep 2009
4936 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 11:30 am to
I do not blame Notre Dame; I blame Texas. They did not want to play LSU who had the best defense in the country. We were also scoring quite a bit of points that season. Texas should have lost the famous battle of unbeatens to Arkansas. Ole MIss beat Arkansas fairly easily ( I know the score was close, but Ole Miss outplayed them) in the Sugar Bowl.That was Coach Mac's best football team and would have been national champs if given the chance. As soon as Texas found a way out, they took it.
Posted by I-59 Tiger
Vestavia Hills, AL
Member since Sep 2003
36703 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 11:30 am to
quote:

Texas vs ND WAS the championship game.



Only for Texas. Notre Dame wouldn't have been number one with a victory. Penn State would have been #1.
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
73856 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 11:30 am to
quote:

TCU


will never get a seat at the grownup table
Posted by TexasTiger08
Member since Oct 2006
25526 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 11:36 am to
quote:

No they changed it to after the bowls after the 64 season


I believe that year was an exception. I think they went back to awarding pre-Bowl up until ‘70.
Posted by I-59 Tiger
Vestavia Hills, AL
Member since Sep 2003
36703 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 11:37 am to
The AP went to post bowl during the 1968 regular season and never went back. UPI awarded theirs prior to the bowl through the 1973 season.
Posted by TexasTiger08
Member since Oct 2006
25526 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 11:44 am to
quote:

Texas money was pouring into South Bend to get ND to play the Longhorns in the Cotton Bowl. Texas wanted nothing to do with LSU after that 1963 Cotton Bowl when Texas went in ranked #4 and undefeated and was shut out by LSU.


I know LSU could dominate those SWC teams on any given game, but I can’t imagine Coach Royal being “afraid of LSU”.
Posted by TexasTiger08
Member since Oct 2006
25526 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 11:44 am to
quote:

Only for Texas. Notre Dame wouldn't have been number one with a victory. Penn State would have been #1.



Correct.

And yes, I was mistaken and confusing AP for UPI.
Posted by TopWaterTiger
Lake Charles, LA
Member since May 2006
10200 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 12:03 pm to
quote:

I do not blame Notre Dame; I blame Texas. They did not want to play LSU who had the best defense in the country.


I wasn't even born yet in 1969 but can guarantee there was serious TX politics at play in this one.
Posted by mpwilging
Punta Gorda Isles, Florida
Member since Jan 2011
6951 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 12:13 pm to
quote:

Team that plays a weak schedule doesn’t exclude them from consideration


Yep, ask Alabama...
Posted by geauxpurple
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2014
12335 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 12:21 pm to
The accounts of Notre Dame taking our place in the Cotton Bowl are correct but the main reason is that we couldn’t tackle Archie Manning.
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
73856 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

we couldn’t tackle Archie Manning.



Archie who??
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 12:23 pm to
quote:

I can’t imagine Coach Royal being “afraid of LSU”.

I didn't know Royal personally, so I couldn't say specifically if he was or he wasn't, but I'm pretty sure the boosters on the whole were not interested in another game with LSU at the time. They would be highly motivated to put together an economic incentive package for Notre Dame to end their self-imposed bowl ban and play Texas in the Cotton.
Posted by PurpleExile
Member since Dec 2020
451 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 1:28 pm to
I don't think this was a Texas decision as much as a Cotton Bowl decision. The Cotton Bowl had been courting Notre Dame, sending "scouts" to their games, all season.

Notre Dame was the prize catch as far as bowl games were concerned. It hadn't been to a bowl game in 40-something years. It was THE glamorous name in college football.
Texas being Texas, Darrell Royal probably assumed his team would beat whoever they played.

The lost point is, until the 2019 team a reasonable argument could be made that this was LSU's most talented team ever. It was certainly Charlie McLendon's best LSU team.
Just look at that poster and read those names. The '69 team had an amazing, all-time defense -- Tommy Casanova, George Bevan, Mike Anderson.

Posted by TexasTiger08
Member since Oct 2006
25526 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 1:49 pm to
quote:

They would be highly motivated to put together an economic incentive package for Notre Dame to end their self-imposed bowl ban and play Texas in the Cotton.


This is quite the story. I have heard nothing of it. Is there ANY evidence that Texas boosters helped facilitate this matchup?

I find this extremely hard to believe. Boosters in 1969 weren’t nearly as powerful as they are now.

Notre Dame was THE name in college football. That means the Cotton Bowl would jump at the chance to take them. There’s also the story that the Cotton Bowl offered Penn State first, and that Paterno decided to go to the Orange.
Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
79677 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 2:44 pm to
quote:

Bert Jones told me Cantrelle was the meanest dude to ever play football at LSU. Said the cops were even scared of him.


There was a story about him that I always heard that illustrated how much of a badass Art Cantrelle was.

There was a tradition at the time that in order for a freshman to graduate to the varsity, he had to be…shaved. Manscaped. So this big group of upperclassman descended upon Cantrelle’s room at Broussard Hall with a straight razor and found Cantrelle sitting there calmly. He told the group: “I know why you’re here, and I’m going to let you do it without a struggle, because frankly, there are too many of you in here for me to stop you. But know this…I see every face in this room. And I will remember them. And at some point, I WILL be alone with every last one of you.”

Art Cantrelle was the only freshman player on that team to graduate to the varsity with pubic hair.
Posted by TigerWatch
Metairie
Member since Feb 2004
3216 posts
Posted on 4/25/22 at 4:47 pm to
As has been mentioned, ND decided to end not playing in bowl games. The Cotton Bowl jumped at the chance to get the beloved Fighting Irish. Plus the Cotton Bowl knew LSU would beat Texas. LSU voted as a team to not accept another bowl. Thus, all us old timers still hate ND.
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