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re: How did our O-line get so bad?
Posted on 9/27/21 at 12:37 pm to Tiger1242
Posted on 9/27/21 at 12:37 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
I’m not as locked in on recruiting as many of you, did we just miss on big time recruits?
Yes, we have missed on some big time recruits. And we have had some rough attrition among OL, for various reasons.
But the biggest problem to me isn’t the attrition or missing on high profile guys like Tristan Leigh. It’s the numbers. Going back the last 5 classes:
- 2017: 4 OL
- 2018: 4 OL (2 were JUCO w/ 2 years eligibility)
- 2019: 5 OL
- 2020: 4 OL (1 was a GR TR w/ 1 year eligibility)
- 2021: 2 OL
When you adjust for remaining eligibility, that’s the equivalent of about 3.5 high school OL signees per year. That’s not nearly enough. Then you add in the attrition:
- Ray Parker (1 year with team)
- Saahdiq Charles (early entrant)
- Seth Stewart (did not enroll)
And that’s the equivalent of taking three four-year guys each class. In other words, enough to maintain a total of 12 scholarship OL on the roster at any given time. Again.. not nearly enough. I haven’t counted Hines or Rosenthal, who were converted DL - but Rosenthal left as well so it doesn’t change the numbers much.
When you look at guys with 4-star ratings or better, it’s even worse - 1.5 per year when you account for remaining eligibility and attrition. So enough to maintain six 4-star or better OL on the roster.
The sad part is that it’s not a hole that can be filled in one or even two classes.
4
Posted on 9/27/21 at 12:44 pm to Tiger1242
Recruiting and development. Why Cregg was really let go.
Posted on 9/27/21 at 12:49 pm to Tiger1242
Coach o roster management
Posted on 9/27/21 at 1:00 pm to lostinbr
quote:
And we have had some rough attrition among OL,
Outside of losing Rosenthal to his own devices, OL has been one of the least affected positions from attrition. If not the least
Posted on 9/27/21 at 1:14 pm to Tiger1242
We can’t develop nor recruit top prospects.
Posted on 9/27/21 at 1:49 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Outside of losing Rosenthal to his own devices, OL has been one of the least affected positions from attrition. If not the least
Yeah, in hindsight you’re right. Ray Parker is the one that always comes to my mind, but I think he was actually practicing at DE?
Maybe I shouldn’t have said that the attrition is rough - it’s rough because we can’t afford to lose anyone. Which is really a numbers problem.
Posted on 9/27/21 at 1:58 pm to Chicken
Guys - it's coaching.
We are signing enough highly ranked guys. We've signed enough guys in general. Aside from this past 2021 class, we were signing 4 or 5 each year.
Just check out the linked thread.
These guys aren't panning out. Whether it's our evaluation of signed players... or our scheme, our OLine coaching or our strength and conditioning program. We've got way more misses than we have hits on the offensive line.
We are signing enough highly ranked guys. We've signed enough guys in general. Aside from this past 2021 class, we were signing 4 or 5 each year.
Just check out the linked thread.
These guys aren't panning out. Whether it's our evaluation of signed players... or our scheme, our OLine coaching or our strength and conditioning program. We've got way more misses than we have hits on the offensive line.
Posted on 9/27/21 at 2:01 pm to The Pirate King
quote:
They haven’t been developed well.
If only there was a guy in charge responsible for ensuring these players got proper development. A CEO if you will...
Posted on 9/27/21 at 3:12 pm to Lester Earl
quote:I hadn't heard that but it would explain a lot.
Ed Ingram has not been happy since Cregg was fired
Posted on 9/27/21 at 3:21 pm to lostinbr
quote:
And that’s the equivalent of taking three four-year guys each class. In other words, enough to maintain a total of 12 scholarship OL on the roster at any given time. Again.. not nearly enough. I haven’t counted Hines or Rosenthal, who were converted DL - but Rosenthal left as well so it doesn’t change the numbers much.
When you look at guys with 4-star ratings or better, it’s even worse - 1.5 per year when you account for remaining eligibility and attrition. So enough to maintain six 4-star or better OL on the roster.
This makes sense as to why we are weak there but it just boggles my kind that we could do this.
I mean I’m not a football coach nor an expert, but if I were starting a college team the first thing I would do is build a strong O-line, every other position can be schemed around if you are weak there (even QB to some point), but if you have a weak O-line you will not be successful. Especially in the SEC
How do you not make the line your top priority EVERY CLASS?
Posted on 9/27/21 at 3:30 pm to Tiger1242
Here's the 2 OL classes you would expect a lot of starters from this year:
2018 - HS ranking
C. Smith - #2 OC ... transfer to MSU
B. Traore - #2 OT (Juco) ... gone after 2 years since JUCO
C. Hines - #16 OG ... struggling with weight, in/out of lineup
D. Rosenthal - #26 OT ... transferred to Kentucky
C. Wire - #28 OT ... missed last 3 games, but was starter at LT after Rosenthal transferred
D. Lewis - #2 OG (Juco) ... left after 2 years since JUCO
2019 - HS ranking
K. Thomas - #2 OG ... injury may have sidelined his career
R. Parker - #19 OT ... kicked off team
A. Bradford - #13 OG ... weight issues, rotational guy right now
C. Turner - #8 OC ... weight issues, been hurt last couple games
T. Perry - #32 OG ... injury may have sidelined his career
As you look at the 2018 and 2019 recruiting classes, you cant sit here and say for sure we got 1 quality starter from that bunch for this season, which is insane consider thats ELEVEN guys we brought in.
Now I hope Wire, Hines or Bradford become a quality starter, but right now you cant say that about any of them...and almost all the other guys have no hope it looks like of ever being a quality starter here.
2018 - HS ranking
C. Smith - #2 OC ... transfer to MSU
B. Traore - #2 OT (Juco) ... gone after 2 years since JUCO
C. Hines - #16 OG ... struggling with weight, in/out of lineup
D. Rosenthal - #26 OT ... transferred to Kentucky
C. Wire - #28 OT ... missed last 3 games, but was starter at LT after Rosenthal transferred
D. Lewis - #2 OG (Juco) ... left after 2 years since JUCO
2019 - HS ranking
K. Thomas - #2 OG ... injury may have sidelined his career
R. Parker - #19 OT ... kicked off team
A. Bradford - #13 OG ... weight issues, rotational guy right now
C. Turner - #8 OC ... weight issues, been hurt last couple games
T. Perry - #32 OG ... injury may have sidelined his career
As you look at the 2018 and 2019 recruiting classes, you cant sit here and say for sure we got 1 quality starter from that bunch for this season, which is insane consider thats ELEVEN guys we brought in.
Now I hope Wire, Hines or Bradford become a quality starter, but right now you cant say that about any of them...and almost all the other guys have no hope it looks like of ever being a quality starter here.
This post was edited on 9/27/21 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 9/27/21 at 3:32 pm to lostinbr
Coaching & 2019 & Joey B spoiled them.
Posted on 9/27/21 at 3:48 pm to Tiger1242
Just don’t have the players
Posted on 9/27/21 at 3:54 pm to sunnydaze
Need better Jimmy and Joes... It is what it is, needs to be a focus on recruiting and now.
Posted on 9/27/21 at 6:52 pm to Chicken
It’s not any different than any other school over a 5 year period. The only difference is we lost 2 juniors to the draft. Outside of that we had very few transfer out. Most play out their eligibility
Posted on 9/27/21 at 7:05 pm to bugafor6
Posted on 9/27/21 at 7:51 pm to Brbengal
We don’t develop what we have. Ingram and Hines have gotten worse as their careers have progressed.
OL is hard to to evaluate in high school. Arkansas and many other programs take raw kids that fit the mold they want and develop them into good players. We take overweight kids who push smaller kids around in HS and try to convince them to lose weight.
OL is hard to to evaluate in high school. Arkansas and many other programs take raw kids that fit the mold they want and develop them into good players. We take overweight kids who push smaller kids around in HS and try to convince them to lose weight.
Posted on 9/27/21 at 8:47 pm to Lester Earl
quote:quote:
Don't forget Tommy Moffitt. Our guys just don't look like other teams' Olinemen.
His teams have played in championships every 4 years since 2003 lol
Not to mention several of his protégés filling the same position on other championship team, if I recall correctly. Never really understood the hate for Moffit on this board.
Posted on 9/27/21 at 10:30 pm to Tiger1242
Terrible Oline evaluations in recruiting which led to major attrition. Bad recruiting. Also, shite coaching obviously which is why he's not employed here anymore. He got desperate and tried to cheat because he knew his arse was on the line. He cheated and STILL couldn't land the recruit. Complete waste of space. Glad he's gone.
This post was edited on 9/27/21 at 10:31 pm
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