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Harris and pass protection
Posted on 9/27/15 at 9:10 am
Posted on 9/27/15 at 9:10 am
I know some are questioning Harris...but I thought he looked good considering he didn't seem to have a lot of tiime. Our line is killing the run, but pass protection seems to be an issue. Anybody else sense this?
Posted on 9/27/15 at 9:11 am to rumproast
Didn't look good when the line allowed a sack on a 3 man rush.
Posted on 9/27/15 at 9:13 am to rumproast
I mean most of those sacks and pressures came on play action passes against a 7 man blitz. How does play action really help there? Get the ball out to your guys one on one.
Posted on 9/27/15 at 9:14 am to rumproast
The passing game just cant get it put together and the most frustrating part is it's not really Harris at all being the problem.
At this point I dont blame Cameron or Miles at all for not throwing the football. It's not a lack of trust in Harris, it's the WRs not catching the ball with any consistency (pick your game). It's penalties wiping out big pass plays. It's the OL failing to give Harris the time needed to make the longer developing pass plays (really just the Syracuse game).
We really need come out in shotgun more, screw this play action pass bullshite when they are stacking the box and bring 6+ guys on a run blitz, we have no chance. Harris clearly looks most comfortable from shotgun and that's the only rhythm we ever build in the passing game.
At this point I dont blame Cameron or Miles at all for not throwing the football. It's not a lack of trust in Harris, it's the WRs not catching the ball with any consistency (pick your game). It's penalties wiping out big pass plays. It's the OL failing to give Harris the time needed to make the longer developing pass plays (really just the Syracuse game).
We really need come out in shotgun more, screw this play action pass bullshite when they are stacking the box and bring 6+ guys on a run blitz, we have no chance. Harris clearly looks most comfortable from shotgun and that's the only rhythm we ever build in the passing game.
This post was edited on 9/27/15 at 9:16 am
Posted on 9/27/15 at 9:16 am to rumproast
Maybe the Syracuse D-line is just that good
Posted on 9/27/15 at 9:18 am to TigerDog83
It's the reason you should attempt to throw in some cases even when you don't need to. We can run over most teams and of course we want to see LF break records...but you must be prepared to pass block if/when you really need the passing game.
Over the past few years we've discussed passing to avoid an opponent stacking the box but you also need enough passing to keep the O-line in concert for pass blocking.
Next week will be a great opportunity to work out some bugs. I hope we don't blow it with stupid penalties and a lack of motivation.
Being undefeated at this point AND having another tune-up game is awesome. I hope we take advantage to teach/learn next week.
Over the past few years we've discussed passing to avoid an opponent stacking the box but you also need enough passing to keep the O-line in concert for pass blocking.
Next week will be a great opportunity to work out some bugs. I hope we don't blow it with stupid penalties and a lack of motivation.
Being undefeated at this point AND having another tune-up game is awesome. I hope we take advantage to teach/learn next week.
Posted on 9/27/15 at 9:34 am to thunderbird1100
We need quick throws to the TE. That's how you beat a blitzing LB.
Posted on 9/27/15 at 10:14 am to rumproast
Shouldn't need more than 3 or 4 seconds. Young QB developing, should see improvement in timing his throws vs waiting for someone to get open.
Posted on 9/27/15 at 10:15 am to rumproast
quote:
Our line is killing the run, but pass protection seems to be an issue.
this is actually a common trait of zone blocking schemes
even alex gibbs, the architect of the scheme who had it humming at its highest peak, had OLs that had issues in the pass game
Posted on 9/27/15 at 10:17 am to rumproast
A lot of the pass protection issues is on the QB not adjusting the line to the blitzes are coming from that's an area Harris needs to work learning what the defense is throwing at him
Posted on 9/27/15 at 10:21 am to rumproast
Yes, line could be better but there is also the need for harris to get more comfortable throwing from the pocket. Being able to sense the pressure and step up is something he is having to learn. The sack with the 3 man rush is a perfect example. That's why I want to throw more when we don't need to throw to give him the real game work he needs.He is progressing and once he figures that out we will really be dangerous but yes, line needs to get better in pass protection.
Posted on 9/27/15 at 10:24 am to Iam_PrinceAkeem
quote:This is the biggest issue with the pass protection. Harris still needs work on his pre-snap reads. He hasn't excelled at taking advantage of receivers against man coverage when blitzes have been pretty evident.
A lot of the pass protection issues is on the QB not adjusting the line to the blitzes are coming from that's an area Harris needs to work learning what the defense is throwing at him
Posted on 9/27/15 at 10:24 am to rumproast
The pass protection and overall oline discipline (concerning false starts and holdings) need to be cleaned up.
However, they got hosed on a number of calls Saturday.
These things can be corrected. It was only their 3rd game against a previously undefeated team with a fan base that definitely showed up.
However, they got hosed on a number of calls Saturday.
These things can be corrected. It was only their 3rd game against a previously undefeated team with a fan base that definitely showed up.
Posted on 9/27/15 at 10:24 am to pufftiger7
quote:
The sack with the 3 man rush is a perfect example.
well to be fair they showed a 3-man rush and that DE basically got to harris untouched. no QB would anticipate that
you expect to have a little time when you read a 3-man rush
now in time he will step up, and he could have, but even good pro QBs get almost auto-sacked in taht scenario
Posted on 9/27/15 at 10:27 am to thunderbird1100
quote:
The passing game just cant get it put together and the most frustrating part is it's not really Harris at all being the problem.
The kid has very little pre-snap awareness. He has to be able to recognize an obvious blitzer and get the ball out quicker.
Brandon has all the physical tools, but it is quite obvious he does not have a great grasp of playing the position at a high level. Experience will change that to a degree, but I am nervous about leaning on him in the near-term.
Posted on 9/27/15 at 10:33 am to SlowFlowPro
Im thinking harris has really gone above and beyond what they expect from a qb. He has a ton of talent and if he improves with the scheme like he has to this point i think he will be in the NFL. I agree with you on the o line stuff. I will ad small quick def lines have always given our big olineman trouble in passblocking.
Posted on 9/27/15 at 10:36 am to rumproast
Pro vertical passing philosophy by Miles and Cameron require longer blocks by OL and more reads by qb and WR. In addition Miles philosophy is a running play accomplishes more than a passing play, even if they gain same amount of yards. Allows OL to attack defender and wear him down. Pass plays put DL as aggressor and attaker and takes fight to the OL. Quick passing game with slants, drags, digs, curls, outs would act similar to a running game and allow shorter block time and put playmakers in space. BUT would not allow DL to be pounded on for 3 quarters. Think a fighter landing body shots for 10 rounds, lowering his hands, then landing the haymaker when he does. This is Miles philosophy in a nutshell. Pound for 3 qtrs then hit big plays with long vertical passes or breaking off long runs. Then pull everything tight and pound to eat up clock. It will never be about what the other team can or can't do. It will always be about what we want to do.
Posted on 9/27/15 at 10:51 am to rumproast
Someone brought up the point that our pass protection may be suffering with all the focus on run blocking. Not sure if true, but I'm confident they will get it fixed. Our schedule sets up so perfectly... Man I hope this is out year.
Posted on 9/27/15 at 11:00 am to Poodlebrain
From Harris' comments after the 1st game, it sounds like Cameron has control of the checks. I think he's letting the reigns go a little, but I'm not positive.
Posted on 9/27/15 at 11:06 am to TigerDog83
quote:
Harris and pass protection
Didn't look good when the line allowed a sack on a 3 man rush.
That was all Vadal getting beat by his man, and not the whole O line. Brandon has done a great job against the blitz overall this year. He missed one against Syracuse, but that doesn't make him unaware. If it had been an issue the last three games, I would say differently.
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