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re: Does Ja'Marr Chase have a chance to be a top 5 all-time Tiger?
Posted on 5/15/20 at 9:05 am to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 5/15/20 at 9:05 am to H-Town Tiger
Statistically, Alexander, Hilliard and Faulk all dwarf Cannon, but the Heisman (and, of course, he played both ways) was his trump card for decades (still is).
We've had single season spikes from RBs, but offensive players just don't stay to rack up career yards any longer. The fact we RB by committee (while good for the team), holds back RBs from chasing career records. Guice staying for his senior year would have challenged Faulk's career number, for example, and Fournette could have shattered it (if healthy).
Even at QB. Hodson was over 30 years ago and his predecessor, Wick, was almost 40 years ago- they bracket Burrow in career numbers.
But, as the OP suggests - Chase is the most significant WR in LSU history, possibly excepting Reed and, barring injury, will surely be our WR GOAT after 2020.
We've had single season spikes from RBs, but offensive players just don't stay to rack up career yards any longer. The fact we RB by committee (while good for the team), holds back RBs from chasing career records. Guice staying for his senior year would have challenged Faulk's career number, for example, and Fournette could have shattered it (if healthy).
Even at QB. Hodson was over 30 years ago and his predecessor, Wick, was almost 40 years ago- they bracket Burrow in career numbers.
But, as the OP suggests - Chase is the most significant WR in LSU history, possibly excepting Reed and, barring injury, will surely be our WR GOAT after 2020.
1
Posted on 5/15/20 at 9:15 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
But, as the OP suggests - Chase is the most significant WR in LSU history, possibly excepting Reed and, barring injury, will surely be our WR GOAT after 2020.
I'm not sure about the first part, but even conceding the GOAT WR part, i don't think that puts him in the top 3 offensive or top 5 all time players short of winning the Heisman which is highly unlikely. Even back to back Bilentnikoff is unlikely.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 9:17 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
i don't think that puts him in the top 3 offensive or top 5 all time players short of winning the Heisman which is highly unlikely.
So, you don't believe WRs belong in the category. I understand that, but don't agree with it.
quote:
I'm not sure about the first part
What other WRs - based on what they did at LSU - are as accomplished or more accomplished than Reed or Chase?
Posted on 5/15/20 at 9:35 am to PhillyFan1994
I think when it is all said and done he will finish as a Top 3 WR at LSU
Posted on 5/15/20 at 9:53 am to H-Town Tiger
So my top 5 would be
1. joe Burrow
2. Billy Cannon
3. Glen Dorsey
4. Mathieu
5. Faulk
Which feels like a bit of recency bias, but we have been much better in the last 20 years that we were from 1960-1999
If Chase has another 20 TD 17000 yards season he could potentially pass faulk.
Is seems unlikely just because Joe isn't here, and I think Brennan will be good, but maybe not that good.
1. joe Burrow
2. Billy Cannon
3. Glen Dorsey
4. Mathieu
5. Faulk
Which feels like a bit of recency bias, but we have been much better in the last 20 years that we were from 1960-1999
If Chase has another 20 TD 17000 yards season he could potentially pass faulk.
Is seems unlikely just because Joe isn't here, and I think Brennan will be good, but maybe not that good.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 9:58 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
So, you don't believe WRs belong in the category. I understand that, but don't agree with it.
I wouldn't go that far but a WR would have to do something super special (Heisman or even finalist for example). Not that Chase wasn't awesome last year but Jefferson's numbers are comparable and Reed posted similar numbers in a different offense and was clearly the #1 option. WR is more dependent on the QB/scheem so can't help but think several other WR we've had (OBJ, Landry, Bowe, Clayton, Reed, even someone like Kennison would be incredible in this offense and post similar numbers.
quote:
What other WRs - based on what they did at LSU - are as accomplished or more accomplished than Reed or Chase
as you noted barring injury, he'll have all the top WR numbers at LSU so he will be the most accomplished and have a great case as the best WR.
This post was edited on 5/15/20 at 10:25 am
Posted on 5/15/20 at 11:38 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
I wouldn't go that far but a WR would have to do something super special (Heisman or even finalist for example).
From 2000 forward, a QB has won every year except 2005 (Originally Bush, RB, now vacated), 2009 (Ingram, RB) and 2015 (Henry, RB).
From 1980 forward - a QB or RB won every year except:
1987 (Brown, WR), 1991, (Howard, WR/PR), 1997 (Woodson, CB/PR),
So, a WR has 2 wins in 40 tries. Prior to that, only Johnny Rodgers, 1972, is listed as a WR (and WR/RB at that).
So, effectively, a WR has won a QB/RB trophy 3 times in ~90 years and you have that as a benchmark for a WR to be considered a GOAT LSU player, but you "wouldn't go that far"?
You are going that far.
This post was edited on 5/15/20 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 5/15/20 at 11:47 am to H-Town Tiger
Chad Lavalais is definitely underrated. He was seriously immovable.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 11:48 am to PhillyFan1994
ABSOLUTELY! Already pushing "the best receiver in LSU history"....
Posted on 5/15/20 at 12:16 pm to Lester Earl
Tommy Casanova says howdy as far as best defensive player ever at LSU.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 12:58 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
From 2000 forward, a QB has won every year except 2005 (Originally Bush, RB, now vacated) and 2009 (Ingram, RB).
Derrick Henry, 2015.
quote:
1987 (Brown, WR), 1997 (Howard, CB/PR)
Howard was a WR, not a CB. He won in '91. Woodson was the Michigan CB who won in '97.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:00 pm to goatmilker
quote:Let'em try that, and Marshall will have a HUGE season.
He may get Shaqahacked. Hell if I'm playing the Tigers he's the one guy I'm targeting to shut down.
Coach E addressed this very thing and knows its coming.
Will be interesting to see the chess game played out
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:17 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
you have that as a benchmark for a WR to be considered a GOAT LSU player, but you "wouldn't go that far"?
Well a GOAT player is a very high standard so yes it has a very high benchmark. Burrow, Cannon, Stovall, Mathieu is pretty elite company.
But perhaps you are misunderstanding me. He's 77 rec 909 yds and 4 TDs away from having the school record in the 3 big receiving categories, so I'm fine with saying he's the best or GOAT WR. the Rec is tougher he should get the yards and tds comfortably which are the more important ones.
To get into the discussion of GOAT players however, he'd have to do more, i said winning the Heisman is unlikely but if he was a finalist (which would probably mean another Bilentnikoff as well) or destroyed record (which also seems unlikely, well TD's maybe ) then he'd be in the discussion but otherwise he'll have to settle for best WR
This post was edited on 5/15/20 at 1:26 pm
Posted on 5/15/20 at 1:20 pm to Scoob
quote:
Let'em try that, and Marshall will have a HUGE season.
this is also part of the reason i'm 100% on board with him being the best rec let alone one of the top 5 players ever at LSU. OU basically did that and of course Jefferson and Moss destroyed them.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 2:36 pm to PhillyFan1994
He will easily be a top 2 WR all time. I would break it down by offense and defense. It’s hard to compare a top 5 overall player all time. He is easily top 5 offensive player of all time.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 3:03 pm to tigercross
quote:
Derrick Henry, 2015.
Yeah, I can't transcribe good.
Posted on 5/15/20 at 3:21 pm to Ace Midnight
Chase would have to win Biletnikoff and Heisman or at least be a finalist. WR/QB position has become harder to assess their legacy rankings bc of the explosion of passing offensive numbers in the modern era.
Without a doubt, there are a number of former LSU receivers who would have undoubtedly put up better numbers and/or comparable to Chase. Having Jefferson basically have all-time season numbers in the same year, only exacerbates this point.
Odell, Reed, Jarvis, Bowe, Doucet, Kenninson, etc., would likely have had better individual numbers in this offense. Not to say they would have better numbers than Chase, but they would have bested their own numbers.
As said before, he would need to be a Heisman finalist to get in the discussion. But, honestly, Im not sure Chase is the best receiver all time at LSU, thats subject to change, if he can repeat the same numbers.
Without a doubt, there are a number of former LSU receivers who would have undoubtedly put up better numbers and/or comparable to Chase. Having Jefferson basically have all-time season numbers in the same year, only exacerbates this point.
Odell, Reed, Jarvis, Bowe, Doucet, Kenninson, etc., would likely have had better individual numbers in this offense. Not to say they would have better numbers than Chase, but they would have bested their own numbers.
As said before, he would need to be a Heisman finalist to get in the discussion. But, honestly, Im not sure Chase is the best receiver all time at LSU, thats subject to change, if he can repeat the same numbers.
This post was edited on 5/15/20 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 5/15/20 at 5:30 pm to bluebarracuda
Some people get nicknames from friends and family members, some people make up their own nicknames, some people get nicknames from food, some from stupid situations, some from TV shows or movies, but some are EARNED and Tyrann my main most man EARNED the name;
HONEY BADGER (ruthless predator, fears nothing, fearless mammal, that TAKES what he wants) called by this name by analysts and opponents instead of given name on the biggest stage. THE FUKN HONEY BADGER! Top 5 nickname in any sport and Top 5 player at LSU. Small size for football but could change the game at anytime and still doing so today. This my friend is a LSU LEGEND
HONEY BADGER (ruthless predator, fears nothing, fearless mammal, that TAKES what he wants) called by this name by analysts and opponents instead of given name on the biggest stage. THE FUKN HONEY BADGER! Top 5 nickname in any sport and Top 5 player at LSU. Small size for football but could change the game at anytime and still doing so today. This my friend is a LSU LEGEND
Posted on 5/15/20 at 5:54 pm to goatmilker
quote:
He may get Shaqahacked. Hell if I'm playing the Tigers he's the one guy I'm targeting to shut down. Coach E addressed this very thing and knows its coming.
They could try lastbyear but with Jefferson next to him you were basically picking your poison.
That’s why they’re moving Marshall this year.
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