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Who has an A/C soft start?

Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:10 am
Posted by Dock Holiday
Member since Sep 2015
1630 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:10 am
Spin off from the Firman generator topic.
I just had a new 4 ton Carrier A/C installed and I'm now considering a soft start by Micro-Air.

Micro air 368

Anyone ran one for a while? Work as advertised?
Installed yourself? Come with clear wiring diagram?

This would eliminate my need to have a 13-17 KW whole house generator if it works as advertised.

For the mechanical engineers/compressors/AC specialist out there, does the reduced inrush of amps actually prolong the life by reduced wear and tear on the A/C compressor? Sounds true on the surface, but could be a sales pitch.
This post was edited on 8/24/22 at 6:17 am
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
66763 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:30 am to
quote:

does the reduced inrush of amps actually prolong the life by reduced wear and tear on the A/C compressor?


It should. Soft starts are commonly used on large industrial motors to save wear and tear on the driven equipment.
Posted by LSUtigerME
Walker, LA
Member since Oct 2012
3786 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:49 am to
Yes, to all of the above.
Posted by TGCM
Member since Dec 2020
81 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:50 am to
Would this device be helpful on a variable speed unit? My compressor has been out since last week and hopefully the replacement is being installed today. I am considering buying whole new unit and would have put in a new variable sipped unit but my contractor told me they were back ordered for a couple months and obviously can’t wait that long. I saw the prior thread on this and asked about installing it on this current unit to try and get more time out of existing unit. He suggested that if I was going to swap to a variable speed soon, it would be waste because the variable speed unit wouldn’t benefit from this device. Is that accurate? Thanks for any input.
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
66763 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:55 am to
quote:

the variable speed unit wouldn’t benefit from this device. Is that accurate?


Yes. Variable speed units are variable frequency drives. They already "soft start" when kicked on.
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
66763 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 7:13 am to
quote:

Anyone ran one for a while? Work as advertised?
Installed yourself?


My friend installed one himself about a year ago and claims that it works as advertised.
Posted by Joe Cigar
Breaux Bridge
Member since Mar 2021
410 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 8:45 am to
Do a search on this board for it. I know someone had installed the micro air and had a really detailed write up. They definitely help a lot. I added a hard start to mine and I can run my 4 ton unit with my 11K portable Champion.
Posted by CrawDude
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2019
5262 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 8:51 am to
Here is a thread that bapple started that will be of assistance to you LINK. If I recall correctly he is an electrical engineer, has installed on his HVACs and provided great detail on their performance. I know several posters on H&G have DYI installed them and are happy with them.

I plan to install one after I change out my HVAC later this year as my intent is not to install an inverter driven HVAC system.
Posted by TheBoo
South to Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
4474 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 8:58 am to
I actually have one sitting on my table to install this weekend on my 4 ton unit. I don’t have a meter to read the before numbers but I’m curious what the app will tell me after the fact. Can keep you updated once I do that.
Posted by Dock Holiday
Member since Sep 2015
1630 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 9:08 am to
quote:

ere is a thread that bapple started that will be of assistance to you LINK.


PERFECT! thanks
Posted by JustinTI
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2006
198 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 9:23 am to
I installed 3 almost a year ago. Zero noticeable difference in performance since then. Worst case scenario, they have no effect on your equipment; best case, they extend their life. Very impressed. Reduced startup current by ~70%. Results below. All units are relatively new (installed 2nd half 2018), dual stage. The 3 and 4 ton are 17 SEER, and the 3.5 ton is 14 SEER. All measurements via clamp meter with max function and are only the compressor.

4 Ton
LRA: 104 amps
Measured startup pre-soft start: 83 amps
measured startup post-soft start: 24 amps
Running amps (max): 12 amps

3 Ton
LRA: 83 amps
Measured startup pre-soft start: 65 amps
measured startup post-soft start: 17 amps
Running amps (max): 10.5 amps

3.5 Ton
LRA: 109 amps
Measured startup pre-soft start: [Can't find]
measured startup post-soft start: 20 amps
Running amps (max): 12 amps

ETA: I bought them on Black Friday - micro air had a good sale. I think it was something like 20% off.

ETA 2: I self installed, and it was easy if you are comfortable with electric work. First one took probably 20 minutes and the next two took maybe 10.
This post was edited on 8/24/22 at 9:31 am
Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11870 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 9:28 am to
quote:

CrawDude


Thanks for the assist!

I can also attest to the customer service from MicroAir. One of my starters wasn’t linking on Bluetooth and I noticed the compressor and fan kicked on simultaneously (they’re usually 5 seconds apart with the starter). So I noticed the unit wasn’t working and had a new one from MicroAir in a few days. They truly stand behind their product.

quote:

Yes. Variable speed units are variable frequency drives. They already "soft start" when kicked on


True statement. VFDs can soft start but soft starters cannot vary the speed of a motor. Once the motor is started the soft starter typically removes itself from the circuit whereas the VFD uses an inverter to vary the speed. That is the main difference with the two devices.
Posted by TeaParty
Member since May 2022
935 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 9:34 am to
I installed a "Hard Start Kit" on both of my units to help my Whole House Generator on A/C start ups. I worked around Generators all my life and always referred to them as soft starts. they conversation between me and the A/C guys was very confusing. I kept calling it SS and he kept calling it HS. I see your link calls it a Soft Start
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
66763 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 10:48 am to
quote:

Hard Start


Is different. It's basically a really big arse capacitor to hit the motor with a shitload of juice when the Contactor pulls in. It helps maintain voltage while the amperage is very high on the motor during the start.

A soft starter works the opposite way, by slowly ramping up the amps to the motor to bring it up to speed in a controlled manner. You avoid the momentary short circuit that is created when you apply power to a motor stator at zero RPM.

Both accomplish the same thing externally, lower Amp draw through the breaker on startup. They accomplish it in basically opposite manners.
This post was edited on 8/24/22 at 10:50 am
Posted by bootlegger
Ponchatoula
Member since Dec 2012
5330 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 11:05 am to
My Klein multimeter was measuring over 130 LRA when my 5 ton unit kicked on. Installed the Microair, and (after the 5 learning starts) it dropped to low 30's. I was amazed. My 10kw Champion trifuel generator is 8750 starting watts on my natural gas supply. It will start and run my 5 ton unit. Granted, I will have to be mindful of the other loads in the house when using the a/c, but for just over $2500 all-in (generator, soft start, interlock kit, 50amp plug and wiring) I am powering my whole house.
Posted by LSUlove
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2003
517 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 11:57 am to
quote:

they conversation between me and the A/C guys was very confusing. I kept calling it SS and he kept calling it HS.


Same. My HVAC guy tells me I need a hard start, not a soft start.

quote:

Both accomplish the same thing externally, lower Amp draw through the breaker on startup. They accomplish it in basically opposite manners.


So which should I put to help with startup using my generator? After my convo with HVAC guy, I’m assuming if I want a soft start I’d have to install myself.
This post was edited on 8/24/22 at 12:00 pm
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
77829 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 12:08 pm to
i have an electrician coming out this week to install a 'whole house' surge protector on the outside meter.

damn i wish i had seen this before now. maybe i can get him to do both.
Posted by Dock Holiday
Member since Sep 2015
1630 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 12:09 pm to
quote:

So which should I put to help with startup using my generator?

My choice will be a soft start, and soon.

quote:

I’m assuming if I want a soft start I’d have to install myself.


You can hire an electrician, but I'd imagine it will be as much or more than the cost of the product. I also want to do this myself because of possible failure of the soft start. If it's a few days to get a new one, I want to be able to re-wire my A/C unit myself to original setting without having to wait.

Posted by BadTiger
Member since Dec 2003
328 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 12:18 pm to
If you can do just basic electrical work, you can install it yourself. I ended up sending the Micro Air tech guys the schematic and wiring pic of my unit. They replied with a marked up photo showing exactly what to connect/disconnect. Support was outstanding. I’m pleased with mine.
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
66763 posts
Posted on 8/24/22 at 12:23 pm to
quote:

which should I put to help with startup using my generator?


I'm planning to put a soft start on mine, but I'm fairly electrically knowledgeable and can install and repair all this stuff myself. I never liked a hard start setup, even though a standard capacitor arrangement is a "hard start" arrangement of sorts and holds up extremely well. If the guy I used to service my stuff preferred a hard start, that's what I'd use assuming he was confident it would get my starting amps low enough for my generator to carry them.

A soft start is "better" in that it will give you the lowest starting amps and save some "bang in" abuse on the compressor.

A hard start is better in that it is at least theoretically more reliable since it isn't an electronic circuit board dumafloggy. It isn't going to reduce your starting amps as much as a true soft starter will.

Both will cost about the same to purchase and install.
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