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re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
Posted on 10/14/24 at 11:17 am to BaddestAndvari
Posted on 10/14/24 at 11:17 am to BaddestAndvari
I had not done tibialis raises before, but I am now. I've also incorporated stretching - focusing on stretching out my calves, they would typically get very, very tight during runs - (how dumb is it that I've never stretched until now), foam rolling, and moderate strength training. This "building up, getting injured" thing has gone on for two years now, but back in July/August (after taking a few months off from getting hurt), I made the conscious effort to stick with a conservative plan and try to do things "right". Working so far, but getting hurt is still in the back of my mind. I would really like to see how far I can take this thing (pipe dream of Boston), but I've got to get off the ground first.
The pfitz plan that I'm following stair steps your way up - so say 16, 18, 18, 20, 23, 23, etc. but you're saying I should probably cut the mileage back and not repeat a week? I will modify and stick to the 10% rule, and not 15-20% that the plan shows. I'd rather be extra cautious than not.
I am a little scared of doing "workout runs" during the building phase, at least right now. I really just want to get to that 30 mark and hold and hopefully not breakdown, but I've got to start incorporating them in at some point.
The pfitz plan that I'm following stair steps your way up - so say 16, 18, 18, 20, 23, 23, etc. but you're saying I should probably cut the mileage back and not repeat a week? I will modify and stick to the 10% rule, and not 15-20% that the plan shows. I'd rather be extra cautious than not.
I am a little scared of doing "workout runs" during the building phase, at least right now. I really just want to get to that 30 mark and hold and hopefully not breakdown, but I've got to start incorporating them in at some point.
This post was edited on 10/14/24 at 11:35 am
1
Posted on 10/14/24 at 11:34 am to TheJunction
quote:
Im currently in the middle of Pfitz base building plan to 30 miles/week (all easy miles, with some strides built in). Once I hit 30, I plan to stay in the 30-35 miles/week for a month or two just to get comfortable (most I’ve ran previously is 25-27 mile weeks), but start including some tempo work in as well.
What comes next? My thought was to then start (after a month or two of getting comfortable at 30-35 miles/week) pfitz’s 12/47 HM plan for a race in April and then turn that into doing his 18/55 for the St. Jude marathon next December - does that sound reasonable? Another thought (again, affect running 30-35 miles/week for a month or two) was to do his base building plan to 45 miles/week and then maintain in that range until the 18/55 plan starts next summer.
I’ve dealt with shin splints in the past, so I’m trying to be very careful about not building to quickly, but I really want to get into that 40/50 mile week range.
Regardless of what I do - I’d like a “plan” just to keep me motivated and on the right track as far as easy/tempo miles.
I used the Pfitz 18/70 to get me a sub 3 marathon this past February. There are a lot of what I call "junk miles" in it, but in my opinion the plan is less about the mileage and more about executing the quality runs. Run the recovery runs as actual recovery runs - check your ego at the door - to be able to save your legs to run the quality runs well. I purposely bought a pair of Hoka shoes I despise running in to use for my recovery days to purposely make sure I didn't go too fast.
The Pfitz plan is all about executing the medium long runs and long runs, in my opinion. In the book he emphasizes not to treat these runs as low and slow Zone 2 runs to log meaningless miles. Instead he says to treat them as progression runs, where you run the first few miles at a warm up pace, then the next miles at around 20% slower than your goal marathon pace, and then the last 5 miles at 10% slower than your goal marathon pace. It sucks the first few weeks, but you ultimately get used to it and it really does make a difference, as going hard in the final 5 miles helps strengthen your legs and simulate the final miles of an actual marathon, where you have to push forward even when tired. The mid-week medium long run is the bread-and-butter of the Pftiz plan from my experience.
The 18/55 isn't really that much different from the 18/70, the main difference is that there are less recovery runs and the mid week medium long runs are a tad shorter.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 11:38 am to TheJunction
quote:
The pfitz plan that I'm following stair steps your way up - so say 16, 18, 18, 20, 23, 23, etc. but you're saying I should probably cut the mileage back and not repeat a week? I will modify and stick to the 10% rule, and not 15-20% that the plan shows. I'd rather be extra cautious than not.
If you are following the pfitz plan you should be ok as well. The repeats are fine and the increases are in the correct range.
The biggest thing I would say is to listen to your body as much as possible as you "build" . For me I always do a cutback, but I know plenty of people who don't need the cutback. Just got with the pfitz and see how you feel.
Just remember you are going to be in maintenance mode once you get to the 30s - this is the best time to get your body ready for what you will put it through once you start the 18/55 plan and consistency is key. Also remember your "recovery" is when you grow stronger, not the runs themselves.
quote:
The mid-week medium long run is the bread-and-butter of the Pftiz plan from my experience.
always felt like a freakin' Legend after the 9 miles at Marathon pace on day 3 of my mid-week runs
This post was edited on 10/14/24 at 11:42 am
Posted on 10/14/24 at 11:43 am to TheJunction
quote:
Im currently in the middle of Pfitz base building plan to 30 miles/week (all easy miles, with some strides built in). Once I hit 30, I plan to stay in the 30-35 miles/week for a month or two just to get comfortable (most I’ve ran previously is 25-27 mile weeks), but start including some tempo work in as well.
What comes next? My thought was to then start (after a month or two of getting comfortable at 30-35 miles/week) pfitz’s 12/47 HM plan for a race in April and then turn that into doing his 18/55 for the St. Jude marathon next December - does that sound reasonable?
I'm doing almost exactly this right now. I started out with the 30 mile base plan, then jumped into part of the 45 mile base plan, and am holding around 35mpw until the end of October. At that point I'll switch to 12/47 for a half in January, then carry over that fitness for the Crescent City Classic
Posted on 10/14/24 at 2:03 pm to goldennugget
Congrats on the sub 3! What do you mean by "junk" miles - are these just slow, recovery miles? No issues with checking my ego, all of the miles I've ran the past 3 months have been slow, except for some strides. I'm in the opposite boat where I am scared to go fast haha.
What should I do when I'm in the "holding" pattern - say I've base built to 40/45 miles and I've got 6 weeks until the plan starts. How do y'all handle adding tempo/harder runs while in this middle phase. I thought about just taking the first week of the pfitz plan and using that as a guide, with some variation to the miles ran.
Really appreciate all the comments here, very helpful.
What should I do when I'm in the "holding" pattern - say I've base built to 40/45 miles and I've got 6 weeks until the plan starts. How do y'all handle adding tempo/harder runs while in this middle phase. I thought about just taking the first week of the pfitz plan and using that as a guide, with some variation to the miles ran.
Really appreciate all the comments here, very helpful.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 2:17 pm to TheJunction
If you’ve base built and can “casually” go run 40-45 mpw you can run whatever you want for workouts during the 6 week holding pattern. Just mix it up. This doesn’t have to be rocket science and so exact that it just burns you out.
How long is the actual training plan and for what distance?
How long is the actual training plan and for what distance?
Posted on 10/14/24 at 2:41 pm to ks_nola
Ok sounds good - my base building to 30 miles per week will finish in early December. From there my thought would be to do pfitz 12/47 for a half in April (plan wouldn’t start until February, so I’ll have a couple of month gap - would probably use some of this time to continue building up to 40 miles/week)
After the 12/47, I’d have a few month gap and then start 18/55 for the st jude marathon in December.
I’ve yet to run over 30 miles a week, so we’ll see how the above shakes out haha.
After the 12/47, I’d have a few month gap and then start 18/55 for the st jude marathon in December.
I’ve yet to run over 30 miles a week, so we’ll see how the above shakes out haha.
This post was edited on 10/14/24 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 10/14/24 at 3:03 pm to BaddestAndvari
quote:
always felt like a freakin' Legend after the 9 miles at Marathon pace on day 3 of my mid-week runs
What was crazy for me is not once in any of the Marathon Goal Pace long runs, did I ever hit a single mile at goal pace, until the final one (18 miles with 14 at goal pace) - where I hit all 14 miles, not just at 6:51 but at an average of 6:41.
The long runs with 8, 10 and 12 miles at goal pace, not one of those miles did I hit the 6:51 target. I thought there was no way I was going to run at a 6:51 pace on race day because I wasn't hitting those benchmarks in the goal pace runs, then it all came together. It's why I stress patience and let the process play out and just keep running. I was probably in 2:57 shape by race day, but it was 80 degrees with a bad headwind for half of the race on race day and I went 2:59.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 3:08 pm to TheJunction
quote:
Congrats on the sub 3! What do you mean by "junk" miles - are these just slow, recovery miles? No issues with checking my ego, all of the miles I've ran the past 3 months have been slow, except for some strides. I'm in the opposite boat where I am scared to go fast haha.
What should I do when I'm in the "holding" pattern - say I've base built to 40/45 miles and I've got 6 weeks until the plan starts. How do y'all handle adding tempo/harder runs while in this middle phase. I thought about just taking the first week of the pfitz plan and using that as a guide, with some variation to the miles ran.
Really appreciate all the comments here, very helpful.
For me junk miles are just the miles that the plan has where the goal is nothing other than just running the prescribed mileage. With the LT/Interval runs, you have specific targets, with the goal pace runs, you have specific targets, with the medium long and long runs, you have specific targets, but with the Recovery and General Aerobic runs, its just run for X miles. I found it harder to find the motivation for those runs(but I did them anyway) just because there is nothing to shoot for. I didn't really care for the double days, where you run 6 miles in the AM and 4 in the PM, especially those 4 in the PM after work. I hate working out after work in general, so the double runs forced me to do it.
For the holding pattern I would say to keep running 20-30 miles per week, and perhaps add a bit of cross training. Long distance triathlons are actually my primary sport, and I only train for one full stand alone marathon each year - so the rest of the year I am in triathlon mode, so naturally I am cross training a lot. Even then, I am going to hit 50 miles of running this week in prep for Ironman Florida. Adding in some bike, swim, or rower sessions will help you aerobically.
Nothing wrong with doing a weekly hard run during the holding pattern as well. They don't all have to be easy Zone 2 runs.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 3:10 pm to BaddestAndvari
Just ordered the Pfitz book. I'll pick a plan for the War Eagle Half in Feb.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 3:35 pm to Aubie Spr96
quote:
Just ordered the Pfitz book. I'll pick a plan for the War Eagle Half in Feb.
That's fine - just a heads up you are probably closer in line with Jack Daniels Running Method. Pfitz could be a shock to your training cycle
I've actually moved closer to Jack Daniels with my training as of late. But really at the end of the day Pfitz and Daniels are actually really close, it's a lot about time on feet and making sure to do pace miles with at least 1 "interval type" run during the week
Pfitz 18/55 is going to be pretty close to Daniels 2Q
Pfits 12/47 is going to be pretty close to the Daniels Moderate Running Plan
ETA: There is a lot of arguments online about which is better... once you've been running awhile I think Daniels is the easier, more accessible of the two, also most "Running Coaches" are going to be V.o2 certified which is the Daniels method. (you can also purchase v.02 plans for very very cheap) Pfitz is great if you follow his plans though - I just personally didn't like his Interval layout or how many times I found myself running Tempo instead of Pace is all.
This post was edited on 10/14/24 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 10/14/24 at 3:39 pm to BaddestAndvari
quote:
Pfitz could be a shock to your training cycle
Might be what I need. I'll read it.
Rucked for over an hour yesterday for some recovery miles. Have 8 on the schedule tonight.
Posted on 10/14/24 at 6:07 pm to goldennugget
quote:
What was crazy for me is not once in any of the Marathon Goal Pace long runs, did I ever hit a single mile at goal pace, until the final one (18 miles with 14 at goal pace) - where I hit all 14 miles, not just at 6:51 but at an average of 6:41.
The long runs with 8, 10 and 12 miles at goal pace, not one of those miles did I hit the 6:51 target. I thought there was no way I was going to run at a 6:51 pace on race day because I wasn't hitting those benchmarks in the goal pace runs, then it all came together. It's why I stress patience and let the process play out and just keep running. I was probably in 2:57 shape by race day, but it was 80 degrees with a bad headwind for half of the race on race day and I went 2:59.
Going sub 3 when only one of your marathon goal pace workouts indicated it is diabolical
Good work though, hopefully the cool weather coming up helps as I dive into Pfitz's plan
Posted on 10/15/24 at 7:09 am to Ingeniero
8 easy miles last night. 4 @ HR 130. 4 @ HR 140.
Have a tempo run scheduled tonight. Feels a little brisk out there today.
Have a tempo run scheduled tonight. Feels a little brisk out there today.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 10:45 am to Aubie Spr96
So I'm a long way off, but I'm thinking about my shoe for Grandma's already - my only "super shoes" I have is a pair of Endorphin Pro 3's. In my experience so far (2 marathons, 1 half, and 1 5k) the Pro's shine in anything up to the half, but after the half they are just too hard and rigid and begin to hurt my feet, a lot.
Right now I'm looking at Adidas Adios Pro, New Balance FuelCell SuperComp Elite, Asics MetaSpeed Sky, and the Saucony Endorphin Elite
Unfortunately I might have to travel out of Birmingham to try on some of these, I don't think our local running shop carries Adidas or New Balance
Right now I'm looking at Adidas Adios Pro, New Balance FuelCell SuperComp Elite, Asics MetaSpeed Sky, and the Saucony Endorphin Elite
Unfortunately I might have to travel out of Birmingham to try on some of these, I don't think our local running shop carries Adidas or New Balance
Posted on 10/15/24 at 10:54 am to goldennugget
Thanks again for all of the information.
Do y'all recommend Heart Rate Monitors? If so, which one? I currently have a Forerunner 255.
Also - how important is it to have a shoe rotation when you get to 40+ mpw? I've read about needing to let the foam "rest" - not sure if that's BS or something to consider. 40-55 mpw may not be enough to matter anyway.
Do y'all recommend Heart Rate Monitors? If so, which one? I currently have a Forerunner 255.
Also - how important is it to have a shoe rotation when you get to 40+ mpw? I've read about needing to let the foam "rest" - not sure if that's BS or something to consider. 40-55 mpw may not be enough to matter anyway.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 10:58 am to TheJunction
quote:
Do y'all recommend Heart Rate Monitors? If so, which one? I currently have a Forerunner 255.
If you like data and/or are heart rate training, a monitor could be useful. Otherwise, I think the watch is fine.
quote:
Also - how important is it to have a shoe rotation when you get to 40+ mpw?
My opinion, pretty important. At minimum, I like to have a race shoe, a workout shoe, and daily/long run shoe.
This post was edited on 10/15/24 at 10:59 am
Posted on 10/15/24 at 11:29 am to TheJunction
quote:
Do y'all recommend Heart Rate Monitors?
If you're serious about HR measurement, get a chest strap. Everything else is garbage. Polar is the standard.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 3:23 pm to TheJunction
quote:
how important is it to have a shoe rotation when you get to 40+ mpw? I've read about needing to let the foam "rest" - not sure if that's BS or something to consider.
I have 5 trainers... yes, 5
While I might have a problem, I rotate my shoes because I've been told by a few people it's good to let the foam rest, so yes, I do it.
Did a very short Interval Session today, my "warm-up" mile I wanted to "take it easy, but also keep up Tempo" if I could. I did not expect a 6:48 and 125 HR.
10 x 200m @ 5:45 after and a very short cooldown.
Small things like this make me think a sub-3hr is within reach for me, I just need a "perfect" training cycle.
Posted on 10/15/24 at 5:15 pm to BaddestAndvari
Baddest;
please elaborate how what you just posted signals a sub 3 is possible?
Junction;
rotating 2 pairs is plenty and then you could have a 3rd pair for race day.
please elaborate how what you just posted signals a sub 3 is possible?
Junction;
rotating 2 pairs is plenty and then you could have a 3rd pair for race day.
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