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Used games dying and adapting to change
Posted on 6/11/13 at 7:43 am
Posted on 6/11/13 at 7:43 am
Would used games dying off really be a bad thing?
It would help publishers and devs a lot more which in turn helps the industry as a whole but most people only care about themselves and their wallets. Understandably so.
So let's look at this from a consumer stand point.
Gamestop is the largest retailer of physical games. I would imagine WalMart and Amazon are up there as well. All 3 of them accept trade ins and sale used games. Wouldn't it make sense that all 3 of them need to keep new game pricing artificially inflated even past a games prime? If not they lose out on the potential profit of the investment they have made in buying that game back from someone else and are stuck with dead inventory they have to write off or dump on the liquidation market. Either way it doesn't = profit.
Now think about what could happen without that inflated market. New games could actually adjust with the demand more than they do now. You could realistically be buying new games for used game prices within a matter of months/weeks vs still having new games priced high a year or two after their release.
Also as far as adapting to change, if more people will hop on the digital purchase system set in place by Sony and Xbox for the new consoles then that money goes straight to publishers/devs after a small cut from Sony and MS I am sure. No physical copy to print and ship out = less cost to the publisher/dev as well. This all means more profit for the publisher/dev.
Wouldn't it make sense that if a dev can make it's money back and then some selling fewer digital copies than it has to of physical copies because of the middle men, manufaturing, and shipping that it could price it's game more with the consumer in mind?
No...well all of this already happens on Steam and other digital distribution platforms. Triple AAA games are usually $10 cheaper on release day and some even cheaper than that. (I remeber pre-ordering Borderlands 2 for $45 with the season pass a week before it came out) If you wait a week or two after release you can usually find them already on sale on a number of sites. Wait a little longer and you are buying them cheaper than the used console copies Gamestop, WalMart, and Amazon are selling. I picked up Hitman Absolution the other day for $6. It's still $18.99 used at Gamestop. None of that $18.99 goes to the publisher/dev.
I just don't see how anyone as a consumer and as a gamer can support used games. Just food for thought.
It would help publishers and devs a lot more which in turn helps the industry as a whole but most people only care about themselves and their wallets. Understandably so.
So let's look at this from a consumer stand point.
Gamestop is the largest retailer of physical games. I would imagine WalMart and Amazon are up there as well. All 3 of them accept trade ins and sale used games. Wouldn't it make sense that all 3 of them need to keep new game pricing artificially inflated even past a games prime? If not they lose out on the potential profit of the investment they have made in buying that game back from someone else and are stuck with dead inventory they have to write off or dump on the liquidation market. Either way it doesn't = profit.
Now think about what could happen without that inflated market. New games could actually adjust with the demand more than they do now. You could realistically be buying new games for used game prices within a matter of months/weeks vs still having new games priced high a year or two after their release.
Also as far as adapting to change, if more people will hop on the digital purchase system set in place by Sony and Xbox for the new consoles then that money goes straight to publishers/devs after a small cut from Sony and MS I am sure. No physical copy to print and ship out = less cost to the publisher/dev as well. This all means more profit for the publisher/dev.
Wouldn't it make sense that if a dev can make it's money back and then some selling fewer digital copies than it has to of physical copies because of the middle men, manufaturing, and shipping that it could price it's game more with the consumer in mind?
No...well all of this already happens on Steam and other digital distribution platforms. Triple AAA games are usually $10 cheaper on release day and some even cheaper than that. (I remeber pre-ordering Borderlands 2 for $45 with the season pass a week before it came out) If you wait a week or two after release you can usually find them already on sale on a number of sites. Wait a little longer and you are buying them cheaper than the used console copies Gamestop, WalMart, and Amazon are selling. I picked up Hitman Absolution the other day for $6. It's still $18.99 used at Gamestop. None of that $18.99 goes to the publisher/dev.
I just don't see how anyone as a consumer and as a gamer can support used games. Just food for thought.
This post was edited on 6/11/13 at 8:13 am
9
Posted on 6/11/13 at 7:48 am to stout
Posted on 6/11/13 at 7:53 am to stout
Solid post. Makes sense but like you said, everyone (sony, MS) would have to be involved. I was surprised Sony went with no restrictions on their games. I assumed the publishers were putting pressure on the console manufacturers which caused the MS DRM move. Also, MS had to deal with piracy this gen. I gotta believe they felt the sting when they saw how many times some of their games were being torrented.
Taylor is working on links and a rebuttal as we speak.
Taylor is working on links and a rebuttal as we speak.
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:03 am to skullhawk
quote:
everyone (sony, MS)
Sony and MS make their money on game licensing so the more copies that move the better it is for them. That's why I am hoping it's a lot like Steam in the sense that you can buy Steam keys from a number of sites. It means more competition which is always good for consumers.
I am sure Sony and MS also get a commission from sales in their marketplace stores. With all of this I don't see why they wouldn't be on board.
I am not too shocked Sony didn't jump on the DRM train when you consider that Sony is desperately trying to revitalize a dying company it makes sense they would have to pull out all of the stops right now. They are all in on PS4 and will do what it takes to move units.
This post was edited on 6/11/13 at 8:05 am
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:18 am to stout
Digital copies should be cheaper at launch, but they aren't selling them for cheaper. There isn't a single reason why they shouldn't be cheaper. The developers maintain the current market by not incentivizing gamers to want a digital copy over a physical copy financially.
There is absolutely no reason why a digital copy should cost the same as a physical copy.
If it is in their own interest, developers/producers should incentivize the purchase of digital media over physical media, but they haven't.
There is absolutely no reason why a digital copy should cost the same as a physical copy.
If it is in their own interest, developers/producers should incentivize the purchase of digital media over physical media, but they haven't.
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:22 am to Scruffy
quote:
Digital copies should be cheaper at launch, but they aren't selling them for cheaper. There isn't a single reason why they shouldn't be cheaper. The developers maintain the current market by not incentivizing gamers to want a digital copy over a physical copy financially.
There is absolutely no reason why a digital copy should cost the same as a physical copy.
If it is in their own interest, developers/producers should incentivize the purchase of digital media over physical media, but they haven't.
I think Xbox is trying to head in this direction though. All you need the disc for is too install the game and after that it will no longer be needed. I think is one of the key reasons for their DRM restrictions. Imagine if you could go to a redbox install it on your xbox then return it.
I know I will be purchasing all of my games day one through digital download.
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:23 am to Scruffy
I agree with what you are saying but again you have a used game market on consoles that means devs have to make every penny they can off of a game at launch. A full priced digital copy is one way of doing that.
You don't think they account for what they will lose to used game sales when they are budgeting for a game? They know thier break even and profit points before a game hits shelves much less goes into production.
It all goes back to that if the used market didn't exist then they would be able to adjust prices across all distribution channels accordingly.
You don't think they account for what they will lose to used game sales when they are budgeting for a game? They know thier break even and profit points before a game hits shelves much less goes into production.
It all goes back to that if the used market didn't exist then they would be able to adjust prices across all distribution channels accordingly.
This post was edited on 6/11/13 at 8:24 am
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:26 am to stout
quote:
stout
I do think the elimination of used games would be huge for the indie market. Many of the companies can release a very successful game, but can barely make back what they spent on it.
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:26 am to stout
quote:
Now think about what could happen without that inflated market. New games could actually adjust with the demand more than they do now. You could realistically be buying new games for used game prices within a matter of months/weeks vs still having new games priced high a year or two after their release.
Look Kay, I've been an Econ prof for the last 15 years. In theory this is how it would work. In reality, these companies are used to pricing their products at $60 for a year. This won't change unless one thing happens:
New channels of distribution (new sellers) come into the market and force them to lower prices. Now this could be done by indy developers providing quality games at lower prices or a host of other avenues. But initially, there is no economic incentive for them to make this move to lower prices.
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:27 am to RTR America
quote:The storage of the digital media isn't the issue. It's the price. The cost to produce it should be reduced. Why does it cost the consumer the same as a physical copy then?
I think Xbox is trying to head in this direction though. All you need the disc for is too install the game and after that it will no longer be needed. I think is one of the key reasons for their DRM restrictions. Imagine if you could go to a redbox install it on your xbox then return it.
As long as the cost to the consumer is equal and we can purchase used physical copies later on for cheaper or borrow physical copies for free, there is no reason, financially, to support the transition from physical copies to digital.
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:28 am to RTR America
Used games doesn't hurt indies because they are usually digitally distributed anyway.
Used games hurt large pubs and devs. We don't need another THQ happening (not saying this was due to used games) as less competition will only hurt the consumer further. Do we really want a world where AAA titles only come from Activision and EA?
Used games hurt large pubs and devs. We don't need another THQ happening (not saying this was due to used games) as less competition will only hurt the consumer further. Do we really want a world where AAA titles only come from Activision and EA?
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:29 am to Broke
quote:
New channels of distribution (new sellers) come into the market and force them to lower prices. Now this could be done by indy developers providing quality games at lower prices or a host of other avenues. But initially, there is no economic incentive for them to make this move to lower prices.
But they already do sale their digital products cheaper on one platform where used games isn't an issue.
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:32 am to stout
quote:
But they already do sale their digital products cheaper on one platform where used games isn't an issue.
You talking about PC? The problem is the Microsoft isn't pushing anybody to move to digital. Which brings up an even bigger question. Can I hook up a 1TB external drive to the new XBOX? You have to provide the platform to be able to do that. I can barely do it on my 250gb hard drive. I think I have 100gb left and I don't install a ton of games. I installed Fable III last night which was about 6gb. If I have 40 games that big installed, I've maxed out my hard drive.
This entire thing is being driven by MS. It's really their move at this point. And so far they haven't been pushing digital too hard.
This post was edited on 6/11/13 at 8:33 am
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:34 am to stout
quote:Its all about incentive. You are asking the consumer to change for the producer.
But they already do sale their digital products cheaper on one platform where used games isn't an issue.
That isn't how it works.
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:34 am to Broke
quote:
The problem is the Microsoft isn't pushing anybody to move to digital.
I think that's exactly what they are doing actually.
quote:
If I have 40 games that big installed, I've maxed out my hard drive.
Why not take off the games you don't play everyday to make room for new games? It's not like you can't DL them again later when you want to play them. I am sure Xbox will allow external storage like they have this gen though.
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:35 am to Broke
quote:
he problem is the Microsoft isn't pushing anybody to move to digital
They are offering day one digital downloads for every game
quote:
Which brings up an even bigger question. Can I hook up a 1TB external drive to the new XBOX?
Yes, you can.
quote:
I can barely do it on my 250gb hard drive. I think I have 100gb left and I don't install a ton of games.
I am down to like 11gb on my 250gb Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:36 am to Scruffy
Someone has to give. Gamestop isn't changing their business model soon and publishers have to make money otherwise why be in business.
It's up to the consumer to support publishers/devs through no longer supporting the used games market.
It's up to the consumer to support publishers/devs through no longer supporting the used games market.
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:38 am to stout
good points
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:38 am to stout
quote:
I think that's exactly what they are doing actually.
Well right. NOW they are. But for years they didn't. I think MS now sees the value in digital purchases. They can control the new market and it seems that they control the used market where they can dip their foot a little deeper into the pool. But if given a choice to buy a hard copy at $60 and a digital copy at $60, the average Xbox consumer is always going to buy the hard copy. Simply because that is what they've been used to buying. Like Scruffy said, you have to incentivize the consumer and you can't do it by price matching both versions.
Posted on 6/11/13 at 8:40 am to stout
quote:
Someone has to give.
I think you just discovered Microsoft's business plan with the Xbox One. How quiet they have been on all these "controversial" things just seems strange.
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