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Are you smart? That's racist
Posted on 10/28/21 at 9:37 am
Posted on 10/28/21 at 9:37 am
Schools debate: Gifted and talented, or racist and elitist?
By BOBBY CAINA CALVAN, Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) — Communities across the United States are reconsidering their approach to gifted and talented programs in schools as vocal parents blame such elite programs for worsening racial segregation and inequities in the country's education system.
A plan announced by New York City's mayor to phase out elementary school gifted and talented programs in the country's largest school district — if it proceeds — would be among the most significant developments yet in a push that extends from Boston to Seattle and that has stoked passions and pain over race, inequality and access to a decent education.
From the start, gifted and talented school programs drew worries they would produce an educational caste system in U.S. public schools. Many of the exclusive programs trace their origins to efforts to stanch "white flight" from public schools, particularly in diversifying urban areas, by providing high-caliber educational programs that could compete with private or parochial schools.
Increasingly, parents and school boards are grappling with difficult questions over equity, as they discuss how to accommodate the educational aspirations of advanced learners while nurturing other students so they can equally thrive. It's a quandary that is driving the debate over whether to expand gifted and talented programs or abolish them altogether.
"I get the burn-it-down and tear-it-down mentality, but what do we replace it with?" asked Marcia Gentry, a professor of education and the director of the Gifted Education Research and Resource Institute at Purdue University.
Gentry coauthored a study two years ago that used federal data to catalogue the stark racial disparities in gifted and talented programs.
It noted that U.S. schools identified 3.3 million students as gifted and talented but that an additional 3.6 million should have been similarly designated. The additional students missing from those rolls, her study said, were disproportionately Black, Latino and Indigenous students.
Nationwide, 8.1% of white children in public schools are considered gifted, compared with 4.5% of Black students, according to an Associated Press analysis of the most recent federal data.
Gifted and talented programs aim to provide outlets for students who feel intellectually constrained by the instruction offered to their peers. Critics of the push to eliminate them say it punishes high achievers and cuts off a prized opportunity for advancement, particularly for low-income families without access to private enrichment programs.
In Seattle, a schools superintendent who left her job in May sought to do away with the district's Highly Capable Cohort program, as the district's gifted and talented program is called, blaming it for causing de facto segregation. In its own recent analysis, Seattle public schools found only 0.9% of Black children had been identified as gifted, compared with 12.6% of its white students.
LINK
By BOBBY CAINA CALVAN, Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) — Communities across the United States are reconsidering their approach to gifted and talented programs in schools as vocal parents blame such elite programs for worsening racial segregation and inequities in the country's education system.
A plan announced by New York City's mayor to phase out elementary school gifted and talented programs in the country's largest school district — if it proceeds — would be among the most significant developments yet in a push that extends from Boston to Seattle and that has stoked passions and pain over race, inequality and access to a decent education.
From the start, gifted and talented school programs drew worries they would produce an educational caste system in U.S. public schools. Many of the exclusive programs trace their origins to efforts to stanch "white flight" from public schools, particularly in diversifying urban areas, by providing high-caliber educational programs that could compete with private or parochial schools.
Increasingly, parents and school boards are grappling with difficult questions over equity, as they discuss how to accommodate the educational aspirations of advanced learners while nurturing other students so they can equally thrive. It's a quandary that is driving the debate over whether to expand gifted and talented programs or abolish them altogether.
"I get the burn-it-down and tear-it-down mentality, but what do we replace it with?" asked Marcia Gentry, a professor of education and the director of the Gifted Education Research and Resource Institute at Purdue University.
Gentry coauthored a study two years ago that used federal data to catalogue the stark racial disparities in gifted and talented programs.
It noted that U.S. schools identified 3.3 million students as gifted and talented but that an additional 3.6 million should have been similarly designated. The additional students missing from those rolls, her study said, were disproportionately Black, Latino and Indigenous students.
Nationwide, 8.1% of white children in public schools are considered gifted, compared with 4.5% of Black students, according to an Associated Press analysis of the most recent federal data.
Gifted and talented programs aim to provide outlets for students who feel intellectually constrained by the instruction offered to their peers. Critics of the push to eliminate them say it punishes high achievers and cuts off a prized opportunity for advancement, particularly for low-income families without access to private enrichment programs.
In Seattle, a schools superintendent who left her job in May sought to do away with the district's Highly Capable Cohort program, as the district's gifted and talented program is called, blaming it for causing de facto segregation. In its own recent analysis, Seattle public schools found only 0.9% of Black children had been identified as gifted, compared with 12.6% of its white students.
LINK
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Posted on 10/28/21 at 9:39 am to djmed
More retards = more Dims
Posted on 10/28/21 at 9:41 am to djmed
Being smart isn’t fully a genetic gift. It also require a lot of hard work and discipline in order to make the most of your gifts.
Are there really smart black and Latino kids? Yes. Problem is that those communities have severe issues with discipline, work ethic, and pushing the importance of school.
You can declare they have to hit racial quotas and send La-A and Chylamidia to Bronx Science but it won’t keep them there if they flunk out because they can’t hack it.
Are there really smart black and Latino kids? Yes. Problem is that those communities have severe issues with discipline, work ethic, and pushing the importance of school.
You can declare they have to hit racial quotas and send La-A and Chylamidia to Bronx Science but it won’t keep them there if they flunk out because they can’t hack it.
Posted on 10/28/21 at 9:41 am to djmed
I don't understand how honest, hard working black people aren't infuriated at the media's portrayal of them. The media is basically saying we shouldn't have gifted and talented programs because black kids are too stupid to get in.
Think about that the next time you go vote.
Think about that the next time you go vote.
Posted on 10/28/21 at 9:44 am to djmed
quote:
equity
Note how they keep using that word.
Posted on 10/28/21 at 9:56 am to djmed
Basically what the powers that be are doing is committing national suicide to accommodate the lowest common denominator. I'm sure there is some self serving interests to go along with that for them but it's disgraceful.
I must add that even more disgraceful is collectively the citizenry is standing by and letting it happen with little to no resistance. It is hard as an individual to know exactly what to do about it however so I guess the inaction is somewhat understandable
I must add that even more disgraceful is collectively the citizenry is standing by and letting it happen with little to no resistance. It is hard as an individual to know exactly what to do about it however so I guess the inaction is somewhat understandable
Posted on 10/28/21 at 10:08 am to djmed
Intelligence is something like 85% inherited.
They have a point.
The question for sane and capable people is whether we continue to tolerate government by the inept and stupid.
They have a point.
The question for sane and capable people is whether we continue to tolerate government by the inept and stupid.
Posted on 10/28/21 at 10:20 am to djmed
As a parent of a small child who, unfortunately, I believe has inherited her mother’s brain, not mine, I worry about her confidence if she doesn’t make the initial gifted cut. I remember being in the “enrichment” program and the division that caused within the school. It gave some of us undue confidence and others unwarranted inferiority complexes. A lot of those kids that didn’t make the cut are just fine, could handle me in a debate, and make more money than me (which isn’t saying a whole lot). So I get the concerns about these programs, but I also get the reasons that they exist. With that said, I agree with y’all that eliminating them to achieve racial equity is very stupid.
Posted on 10/28/21 at 10:22 am to djmed
Anybody listen to rap lately? The more utter getto, the more money. It’s practically stylish to be an ignorant Fuk
Posted on 10/28/21 at 10:23 am to djmed
Let New York get dumber. What the hell do I care?
Posted on 10/28/21 at 10:41 am to djmed
I am old (almost a Boomer), and I attended school in a rural town that was about 50% Anglo, 30% Black and 20% Latino. We were too small for a GT program (even if they had existed at the time). Instead, the District divided the 100 kids in my class into four "ability groups" for 6th grade.
Low and behold, everyone seemed to learn better in a class surrounded by intellectual equals. The problem? Section 6A was 95% Anglo. So the minority parents complained bitterly about the arrangement, and the next year our sections were drawn randomly. The smart kids were bored, and the slower kids unable to keep up.
For eighth grade, they took us right back to ability grouping, over the objections.
Shame that school boards have lost that degree of moral fortitude in the intervening years.
Low and behold, everyone seemed to learn better in a class surrounded by intellectual equals. The problem? Section 6A was 95% Anglo. So the minority parents complained bitterly about the arrangement, and the next year our sections were drawn randomly. The smart kids were bored, and the slower kids unable to keep up.
For eighth grade, they took us right back to ability grouping, over the objections.
Shame that school boards have lost that degree of moral fortitude in the intervening years.
Posted on 10/28/21 at 10:48 am to djmed
IQ in inherited so real GT classes will always be mostly white and Asian.
You can use aff action to put non-GT blacks and Hispanics in the classes but they will be lost in the speed. Especially dealing with abstract concepts.
Getting rid of GT altogether is the worst idea. GT kids placed in general classes will get bored and they will find ways to amuse themselves at the expense of the teacher and the stupid kids.
And you won't be able to discipline them because they're smart enough to know what they can do without breaking any school rules.
You can use aff action to put non-GT blacks and Hispanics in the classes but they will be lost in the speed. Especially dealing with abstract concepts.
Getting rid of GT altogether is the worst idea. GT kids placed in general classes will get bored and they will find ways to amuse themselves at the expense of the teacher and the stupid kids.
And you won't be able to discipline them because they're smart enough to know what they can do without breaking any school rules.
Posted on 10/28/21 at 10:52 am to djmed
My oldest is going through the gifted and talented testing now. Guess we’re racist since my kids are extremely bright.
Posted on 10/28/21 at 10:56 am to djmed
IQ testing is generally used for GT screening. I believe in most districts the cut-off is around IQ 130, which also happens to be the Mensa cut-off. (Top 2%). Some districts may require more than an IQ score, but IQ is generally the predominant factor.
It has been known for decades that blacks score about 1 standard deviations lower on IQ tests (on average) than whites and Asians. The average Asian IQ is around 105, the average white IQ is about 100, whereas the average black IQ is 85. Again, this is well known within the psychology community but rarely talked about.
So it stands to reason that fewer blacks will make the cut-off for GT programs. There is nothing unusual about this considering the well known 1 standard deviation lower average. The left doesn't seem to understand the Bell Curve and basic statistics.
There are blacks out there, of course, who would qualify at the cut-off. If they are being neglected that's wrong and should change.
In any case, this is the same reason they want to do away with the SAT/ACT. Both are nothing but IQ tests (they used to be real IQ tests prior to the 90's when they started dumbing down both tests). Some minority groups score lower on these tests just as they do on the WAIS or other standard IQ tests. Regarding the SAT/ACT, Asians are #1 with whites coming in 2nd. Latinos are generally 3rd with blacks trailing the rest.
TL;DR - The left doesn't care about science, all they care about is dumbing us all down in the name of "equity."
It has been known for decades that blacks score about 1 standard deviations lower on IQ tests (on average) than whites and Asians. The average Asian IQ is around 105, the average white IQ is about 100, whereas the average black IQ is 85. Again, this is well known within the psychology community but rarely talked about.
So it stands to reason that fewer blacks will make the cut-off for GT programs. There is nothing unusual about this considering the well known 1 standard deviation lower average. The left doesn't seem to understand the Bell Curve and basic statistics.
There are blacks out there, of course, who would qualify at the cut-off. If they are being neglected that's wrong and should change.
In any case, this is the same reason they want to do away with the SAT/ACT. Both are nothing but IQ tests (they used to be real IQ tests prior to the 90's when they started dumbing down both tests). Some minority groups score lower on these tests just as they do on the WAIS or other standard IQ tests. Regarding the SAT/ACT, Asians are #1 with whites coming in 2nd. Latinos are generally 3rd with blacks trailing the rest.
TL;DR - The left doesn't care about science, all they care about is dumbing us all down in the name of "equity."
This post was edited on 10/28/21 at 11:02 am
Posted on 10/28/21 at 12:07 pm to djmed
The public school system is designed for the "average" student.
Those who are gifted and talented (and, likewise, those with learning challenges) have rarely done well. The best example in American history is Edison: he was on BOTH ends of the spectrum (talented, but had trouble in school due to being nearly deaf). This is where homeschooling helps (and for Edison it did, history bears that out).
Those who are gifted and talented (and, likewise, those with learning challenges) have rarely done well. The best example in American history is Edison: he was on BOTH ends of the spectrum (talented, but had trouble in school due to being nearly deaf). This is where homeschooling helps (and for Edison it did, history bears that out).
Posted on 10/28/21 at 12:14 pm to djmed
quote:
A plan announced by New York City's mayor to phase out elementary school gifted and talented programs in the country's largest school district — if it proceeds — would be among the most significant developments yet in a push that extends from Boston to Seattle and that has stoked passions and pain over race, inequality and access to a decent education.
This is why your mayor should have absolutely NOTHING to do with the local school system. School boards should be entirely independent of any city governing body or person. I remember a few years ago some goober ran for MP of EBRP claiming he was going to "fix the schools." He had to be reminded the Mayor-President has zero say in how the schools are run in East Baton Rouge Parish. That's one thing we actually do right in this parish. Our school board is relatively dysfunctional at times, but at least the Mayor's Office can't meddle in their affairs.
Posted on 10/28/21 at 12:32 pm to djmed
quote:
Are you smart? That's racist
Good...1 more thing that makes me racist
Posted on 10/28/21 at 1:28 pm to djmed
quote:
Are you smart? That's racist
Whew. Dodged that one
Posted on 10/28/21 at 1:50 pm to djmed
quote:
I get the burn-it-down and tear-it-down mentality,
I don't understand it in the least bit.
Posted on 10/28/21 at 1:54 pm to djmed
It’s like the comment that blacks use when black kids study, read , do homework or otherwise make efforts to further their education- they’re said to be “acting white” as if only white people care about being smart or educated
Talk about self defeating
Talk about self defeating
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