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re: Vatican warns bishops not to deny communion to Biden, politicians over abortion
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:14 pm to Crimson Wraith
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:14 pm to Crimson Wraith
Is this statement deemed infallible ?
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:18 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
The Catholic Church has no principles
The Catholic Church is its people. Are you (and others in this thread) calling Catholics unprincipled (and others, evil)?
This post was edited on 6/15/21 at 8:22 pm
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:19 pm to Crimson Wraith
quote:
the pope spoke about communion as “not the reward of saints, but the bread of sinners,”
I agree, but the church also discerns between venial sins and mortal sins. You’re not supposed to receive the Eucharist if you are in mortal sin and have not gone to confession yet. Ending a pregnancy is 100% a mortal sin in the Catholic Church. Cursing, having impure thoughts, gossiping, etc. are venial sins and you can still receive the Eucharist without going to confession. The pope doesn’t get to have it both ways.
Yes, the Eucharist is indeed the bread of sinners but there’s a process a Catholic must go through while in mortal sin in order to receive it and that process is confession, sincere prayer for forgiveness & to walk away from whatever leads them to that sin, and a vow to never do it again (and mean it). Biden hasn’t walked away from the democrat party (that leads him to support abortion) and I have no idea if he has sincerely asked for forgiveness for his support of abortion. Given what I know to be fact, I feel the facts outweigh what is impossible for me to know and if I were in position of authority in the church, I would not give Biden the Eucharist.
My president (unfortunately) but not my pope. I can’t support the pope going forward because of his position on this issue. Abortion is just too big and important of an issue to me and to the church.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:29 pm to Crimson Wraith
Big shocker here. Catholic church just wants money and to look good. Don't ruffle feather. The ideals of Catholicism are great, but catholic leadership is bordering on downright evil.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:31 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Now, these things are public and championed, and a step to withhold the Eucharist, mind you millions of Catholic in sin take it every weekend, is actually politicizing it.
That’s where you are wrong. Abortion is a mortal sin and supporting those who have an abortion or the funding/assistance of one is wrong whether it’s public or in private. God doesn’t only see public sin - he sees every sin. Withholding the Eucharist from those in mortal sin was the right thing to do in the church on day one and it’s the right thing to do today. The church either has beliefs and convictions or it doesn’t.
Who the hell are YOU to say it’s ok to give the Eucharist to someone in mortal sin today just because that mortal sin happens to be a common mortal sin?
It was wrong then and it’s wrong now.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:32 pm to DaTruth7
quote:
The ideals of Catholicism are great, but catholic leadership is bordering on downright evil.
100%
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:44 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
If you say you are personally opposed to abortion, but support policies that result in more abortions, how opposed are you really?
That’s the whole point of true Catholics here. There is NO distinction made, according to the church’s beliefs) between having an abortion and supporting abortion. You can say you are personally opposed to abortion all you want but if you support it via policies that lead to abortions then you are in sin.
President Biden could say he personally opposes abortion until he’s blue in the face but he still clearly supports legislation which leads to easier access to it and therefore he is in a state of mortal sin.
While I’m at it, one thing that I personally have a hard time with is that as a Catholic I’m not supposed to have sexy with my wife with ANY form of birth control (condom, pull out method, pill, etc.). I have a big problem with that because from a financial standpoint we are maxed out with children and my wife actually has a major health risk with a third pregnancy (we found out about it during the second one). The church expects me to just splooge into my wife with absolutely no method of birth control even though it could potentially put my wife and the resulting pregnancy in danger. I had planned on getting a vasectomy but then when I learned of this, I kinda put it on hold until I can get further guidance from the church on it. I try to be a good Catholic and do plan on talking to my priest about this to pick his brain before getting the vasectomy.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 8:59 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Having a political position is not necessarily a sin. It's poor wisdom and can lead to sin, but if Joe Biden hasn't procured an abortion, he's just a bad Catholic, and not necessarily a sinner.
Supporting abortion is not a political issue it is a moral issue. If Biden signed an Executive Order that allowed killing Asians but he did not personally kill an Asian would he be a sinner?
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:00 pm to conservativewifeymom
quote:
when the faithful stop giving hard-earned cash to support the inflated hierarchy and farce that pretends to be a Christian church.
Some of us already have.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:01 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
The Catholic Church has no principles.
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:02 pm to Crimson Wraith
The pope and the pres both like the smell of a young boy’s arse.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:11 pm to David_DJS
quote:
The Catholic Church is its people. Are you (and others in this thread) calling Catholics unprincipled (and others, evil)?
I understand the theological point your making. But it’s bad logic. The church stems from the clergy.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:14 pm to Crimson Wraith
The Pope is a typical Jesuit...
He makes it hard to stay a Catholic...
He makes it hard to stay a Catholic...
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:25 pm to Crimson Wraith
Flashback:2007…
As Cardinal, Pope Francis Strongly Condemned Abortion: Then Cardinal Bergoglio Clearly Supported Denying Communion To Anyone Who Facilitates Abortion…
….In his archdiocese, Cardinal Bergoglio promoted a special blessing for mothers and their unborn children. Moreover, on behalf of the bishops of Latin America, also in 2007, Cardinal Bergoglio presented the "Aparecida Document" regarding the situation of the Church in their countries. The document, approved by Pope Benedict XVI in July of that year, made a very clear statement regarding the consequences of supporting abortion, disallowing holy communion for anyone who facilitates an abortion, including politicians.
The text states in paragraph 436 that "we should commit ourselves to ‘eucharistic coherence’, that is, we should be conscious that people cannot receive holy communion and at the same time act or speak against the commandments, in particular when abortion, euthanasia, and other serious crimes against life and family are facilitated. This responsibility applies particularly to legislators, governors, and health professionals."
As Cardinal, Pope Francis Strongly Condemned Abortion: Then Cardinal Bergoglio Clearly Supported Denying Communion To Anyone Who Facilitates Abortion…
….In his archdiocese, Cardinal Bergoglio promoted a special blessing for mothers and their unborn children. Moreover, on behalf of the bishops of Latin America, also in 2007, Cardinal Bergoglio presented the "Aparecida Document" regarding the situation of the Church in their countries. The document, approved by Pope Benedict XVI in July of that year, made a very clear statement regarding the consequences of supporting abortion, disallowing holy communion for anyone who facilitates an abortion, including politicians.
The text states in paragraph 436 that "we should commit ourselves to ‘eucharistic coherence’, that is, we should be conscious that people cannot receive holy communion and at the same time act or speak against the commandments, in particular when abortion, euthanasia, and other serious crimes against life and family are facilitated. This responsibility applies particularly to legislators, governors, and health professionals."
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:27 pm to TDsngumbo
quote:
The church expects me to just splooge into my wife with absolutely no method of birth control even
Actually a very effective way without any of your crude descriptors. Of course, since you've just made it badic instinct, you likely couldn't follow.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:39 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
I understand the theological point your making. But it’s bad logic. The church stems from the clergy.
If you were consistent with your "good logic," you'd accept the label of Leftist, believer that America is racist AF and okay with 12 yo girls being molested in public because you are an American, and America is presently being led/ruled by assholes that are all those things and more.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 9:58 pm to David_DJS
quote:
If you were consistent with your "good logic," you'd accept the label of Leftist, believer that America is racist AF and okay with 12 yo girls being molested in public because you are an American, and America is presently being led/ruled by assholes that are all those things and more.
I understand the theology, I think that was true of the early church, and it may be true of the Orthodox Church, but it’s not true of the Catholic Church, due to its hierarchical structure.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 10:05 pm to Lima Whiskey
So you can’t take communion if you are divorced regardless of the reason but if you support abortion you can? We have a problem.
Posted on 6/15/21 at 10:08 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
I understand the theology, I think that was true of the early church, and it may be true of the Orthodox Church, but it’s not true of the Catholic Church, due to its hierarchical structure.
To the point I made - what you're describing re: Catholics, how is it different re: Americans?
Posted on 6/15/21 at 10:12 pm to Crimson Wraith
Why does even teach its tenets if they don’t hold accountable it’s own followers.. we aren’t talking forgiveness but active disassociation with major issues..
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