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re: Formula 1 2021 Season Thread
Posted on 12/13/21 at 2:46 pm to TomBuchanan
Posted on 12/13/21 at 2:46 pm to TomBuchanan
The money is a big deal. Mercedes, the car manufacturer, has to fund whatever shortcomings Mercedes F1 spends to win.
Now that there is a spending limit that extra 30-50 million is probably easier to absorb, but Mercedes Corporate has to look at that bottom line.
There are also some other issues that come into play, but finishing higher is actually worse for a lot of those. Kind of like the NFL draft.
Now that there is a spending limit that extra 30-50 million is probably easier to absorb, but Mercedes Corporate has to look at that bottom line.
There are also some other issues that come into play, but finishing higher is actually worse for a lot of those. Kind of like the NFL draft.
This post was edited on 12/13/21 at 2:48 pm
1
Posted on 12/13/21 at 2:49 pm to fightin tigers
A couple years ago, it was at least 20 million between 1st and 2nd place...
Posted on 12/13/21 at 2:56 pm to Captain Crackysack
quote:
I don’t particularly care for Lewis or Max but there’s no way you can watch the ending of the race and think that it was handled correctly. Mercedes can only strategize based off the information being provided. When Massi changes his mind after already making a decision, wtf is Toto supposed to do?
I wanted to see Max win as much as the next guy but I have no trouble admitting that the decision to only let some of the lapped cars through is questionable. Doing so basically confirmed that all they cared about was Max and Lewis and screw the rest of those guys. I don't know what the exact running order was but I'd imagine those guys were equally trying to jockey for final spots but had lapped cars in the way. I fully expected this to end under safety car and was shocked when they let the cars between Max and Lewis slide on past the SC. I don't think Masi was Team Max or Team Lewis as much as he was Team TV Ratings, and finishing under a safety car would've been anticlimactic. I'd be perfectly ok if he's fired as I've had issues with some other handlings as well.
With that said, I don't care.
I've seen enough lucky breaks fall Mercedes/Hamilton's way that seeing one break the opposite for them makes me giddy on the inside. Downvote me if you must, but I don't care that its Mercedes that got shafted. Posted on 12/13/21 at 2:58 pm to ell_13
Toto’s strategy was based off their real time analytics. Masi literally just made up a rule which unlapped only the cars between Lewis and Max. every possible decision in Mercedes’ sims was showing a win besides the one that was made. It’s hard to run analytics on a race director making up his own rules
This post was edited on 12/13/21 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 12/13/21 at 3:01 pm to YOURADHERE
quote:I agree. It’s just bullshite though. What’s the point of racing for 58 laps when the guy who’s dominating for 57 of them can have his advantage erased by the race director? They might as well have just ran a one lap race with only Lewis and max out there if that’s what they wanted.
I don't think Masi was Team Max or Team Lewis as much as he was Team TV Ratings, and finishing under a safety car would've been anticlimactic
Posted on 12/13/21 at 3:36 pm to Captain Crackysack
It’s a race. Weird stuff happens.
I didn’t mind them letting those cars pass. They obviously had the time to do it and they could go down the track and race their race.
Merc was never going to do anything different based on when Lewis passed pit entry.
The worst call of the day was the opening lap run out.
I didn’t mind them letting those cars pass. They obviously had the time to do it and they could go down the track and race their race.
Merc was never going to do anything different based on when Lewis passed pit entry.
The worst call of the day was the opening lap run out.
Posted on 12/13/21 at 3:41 pm to Captain Crackysack
It's called a motor race.
Posted on 12/13/21 at 3:42 pm to Captain Crackysack
quote:
What’s the point of racing for 58 laps when the guy who’s dominating for 57 of them can have his advantage erased by the race director?
An untimely safety car is always a possibility. If this had happened and they raced 2-3 laps would you see the same controversy? Doubtful. If the ending was unfair, it wasn’t unfair to Mercedes, it was unfair to Sainz. With the desire to end the race under green flags (correct decision) and the desire to not influence the WDC (correct decision) the only move was only let the cars between the 2 WDC rivals through. Typically there is more time to un-lap all cars but I don’t think the other 2 would have made it and you can’t un-lap before the wreck is cleared because by default, they’re going faster than the Safety Car.
The thing it also does it prevent any of the drivers between the 2 of them to have to make a decision on whether to let Max by them before the restart or to race him into the first turn and possibly be under their own scrutiny for not clearing the way.
The only two with anything left to race for were Max and Lewis. The constructors standings were pretty much slated. Sainz could have grabbed a P2 potentially but so what.
Posted on 12/13/21 at 4:04 pm to southernelite
That’s the problem though. Mercedes made their strategy decision to not pit Lewis because the two possible outcomes under the rules were A)lapped cars can’t pass the safety car in which case max comes out the pits behind back markers or B) let all of the back markers unlap themselves which ends the race. Clearly merc made their decision with those possibilities in mind. It’s absolute horseshite, in any sport, for a human being to be able to influence the outcome the way Masi did. If Merc would have known that only unlapping some of the back markers was a possibility, they would have pitted Lewis and him and max would have battled out the last lap with both on fresh tires and Lewis wins anyway.
This post was edited on 12/13/21 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 12/13/21 at 4:07 pm to TomBuchanan
quote:
I'm sure they care about money but do they really care that much when pride is on the line as well?
WCC is THE most coveted prize by the constructors, full stop and there is zero need for discussion in the matter. Plus, WDCs are portable in a way, they follow the driver but the WCC stays in the constructor's trophy case and is their measuring stick. Williams, McLaren, and Mercedes all look at Ferrari's 16 WCC and wish and hope.
EDITED because I'm stoopid
While it is not a perfect analogy by far think of it like an MVP vs a Super Bowl or Heisman vs a Natty.
This post was edited on 12/13/21 at 6:37 pm
Posted on 12/13/21 at 4:21 pm to SwampDonks
quote:
It's called a motor race
All of this!! That's all you really need to know. Max is ready to stick his car in there and race. Lewis wants to rely on his strategists and FIA rulings. Lewis is the greatest driver of F1 cars I've ever personally seen. He just doesn't like to race anymore. I have yet to see him get passed on the track without an accompanying "That's some dangerous driving mate!!"
In the immortal words of Shifty from the movie "Six Pack" -- "Drive it till you hear glass and smell shite!"
Posted on 12/13/21 at 4:30 pm to Captain Crackysack
quote:
B) let all of the back markers unlap themselves which ends the race.
Actually, that is not the case. Had the Canadian's car been cleared in a timely manner and Masi not bothered to listen to the whining Christian and Toto all the lapped cars could have been cleared. The decision only needed to be made 30 or so seconds earlier. There is no way Hamilton's engineer could have known they would not go green after the safety car at the time of the incident. Toto would know as long as he kept Masi talking the less likely it was for a restart, whether he thought of that and attempted to use it to his advantage we will never know.
With the timing of the accident with respect to laps left and the position of Lewis on the track at the time of the incident the only way Bono gets Lewis fresh tires and keeps track position is to make a complete guess. There was no way to game it in the time left. Whether he was constantly gaming a safety car is another matter.
Posted on 12/13/21 at 4:31 pm to Captain Crackysack
Was Lewis penalized for cutting across the corner at the start and increasing his lead over Max?
This post was edited on 12/13/21 at 6:28 pm
Posted on 12/13/21 at 4:38 pm to weagle99
Lewis apparently lifted and allowed the gap to Max to shorten a bit and that was deemed good enough by Masi.
Posted on 12/13/21 at 5:07 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
WDC is THE most coveted prize by the constructors, full stop and there is zero need for discussion in the matter. Plus, WDCs are portable in a way, they follow the driver but the WCC stays in the constructor's trophy case and is there measuring stick.
Umm, is there a typo here?
(not referring to there vs their
) This post was edited on 12/13/21 at 5:10 pm
Posted on 12/13/21 at 5:15 pm to TouchedTheAxeIn82
I wonder if any of the other teams said anything to the FIA?
I also wonder if any of the lapped drivers said anything to their team?
I may go back and watch the ending to see if there was any radio conversations between other drivers about the situation.
I also wonder if any of the lapped drivers said anything to their team?
I may go back and watch the ending to see if there was any radio conversations between other drivers about the situation.
Posted on 12/13/21 at 5:49 pm to fightin tigers
quote:enlighten us
Someone went and dug up Masi's comments following the 2020 Eiffel GP.
Posted on 12/13/21 at 5:55 pm to HubbaBubba
quote:
”There’s a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past,” he later told Motorsport Week.
quote:
“From that point, it was position six onwards that were still running [on the lead lap], so between 10 or 11 cars had to unlap themselves.
“Therefore the safety car period was a bit longer than what we would have normally expected.”
mirror.com
Posted on 12/13/21 at 5:58 pm to southernelite
quote:
also wonder if any of the lapped drivers said anything to their team?
Off the top of my head, Alonso, Ricciardo, Sainz (who said it should end under yellow), and Norris all said they thought it was unusual or not correct.
Danny Ric even asked why he was behind the leaders.
Posted on 12/13/21 at 6:13 pm to TouchedTheAxeIn82
quote:
Umm, is there a typo here?
(not referring to there vs their )
Yeah, I fricked that all up, like a football bat.
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