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Message
re: 75 year old man pushed to the ground by police
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:06 am to crazy4lsu
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:06 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Do you know how we can discern what is going through the minds of people? You say there's no way of knowing what's going through their minds, and then in literally the next part of the sentence, make an assumption about their judgment being clouded.
Look, I don't know how to put you in the mindset of piecing surrounding environmental factors together to assess a situation. I'm saying that from my perspective, I make an assessment in a situation like this using conservative estimates and that's exactly why I said what I said.
quote:
Since none of us were there, there are reasonable things we can assume, and there are unreasonable things we can assume and there are reasonable things we can assume. We can assume, from the evidence on hand, that there was no riot happening in that particular moment, or that there was even a line that protesters (and media) needed to stay behind, by virtue of the fact the old man was walking freely and that this event was being filmed. Since he's holding a helmet, we can possibly infer that there was something going on before this that resulted in an officer losing his helmet, and we can possibly infer that these officers may have been late arrivers, given they are moving together toward what I assume are protesters.
Those are certainly your assumptions and what you gathered. From the looks of it, you would've been on the ground just like that guy. You're trying to give a right/wrong assessment in this situation and that's not my point. I don't understand why you can't see that.
quote:
There is no reasonable basis to assume that their judgment is clouded, and if their judgment gets clouded so easily, then why do they have the powers that they do?
Putting on riot gear can absolutely change the mindset of a person.
quote:
Everyone brings their ideology to discussions. You are doing the same. And if your assessment takes them at their worst, then we all should be protesting.
Again, you're trying to assign a right/wrong to this and I'm not arguing that.
1
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:10 am to BossBailey345
Goofy shoes let him down. 
Anyway, don't bow up to amped up riot police- even if you're just trying to relive the 1960s.
Anyway, don't bow up to amped up riot police- even if you're just trying to relive the 1960s.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:11 am to Salmon
quote:
I think we both work in the same field, right? Which is in risk assessment.
In risk assessment, you start with worst case scenario and then work backwards based off variables.
And what do you do in an absence of a complete picture? Be conservative?
quote:That's kinda my point. Assuming you don't have the full picture (which you don't), you err on the side of caution.
Just off this video, there seems to be plenty of variables that would cause someone to not assume worst case scenario.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:12 am to lsu2006
quote:
Keep this same energy when discussing protestors. Just a couple bad apples, right? Like the cops?
deal when yall acknowledge the same with cops. Also I can respect "peaceful protesting" and still disagree with their bullshite narrative that isn't supported by any facts and data, just feelings.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:13 am to oleheat
quote:
Anyway, don't bow up to amped up riot police- even if you're just trying to relive the 1960s.
Returning a riot helmet is amping up riot police?
Sounds like a good reason not to have riot police
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:14 am to TigerChief10
quote:
deal when yall acknowledge the same with cops.
You can’t see any reason why cops should be held to higher standards than civilians? Not one?
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:15 am to TigerChief10
quote:
their bullshite narrative that isn't supported by any facts and data, just feelings.
Can you expound on this?
Also, you're missing my point. This board has been completed inundated with sweeping generalizations made about protestors. But when the same generalizations are made about cops, it's a no-go. Just odd to me.
This post was edited on 6/5/20 at 11:17 am
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:17 am to upgrayedd
quote:
I don't understand why you can't see that.
No, I'm asking you to consider the 2nd and 3rd orders of your original point before you start accusing other people of ideological stances. I haven't made a direct moral claim at all, though you can infer how I feel about such situations. Read the thread again. I haven't even asked you for a moral judgment. I'm literally talking about the 2nd and 3rd order effects, because, regardless of any objective pose (which is nonsensical in this situation), actions don't exist independently of the context in which they are expressed.
This post was edited on 6/5/20 at 11:20 am
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:18 am to LSUBoo
quote:
The old dude shouldn't have been there, and I don't think the cop was trying to shove him to the ground, just push him back away...
Agreed.
quote:
but the really ridiculous part is not to help him after he hits his head and is bleeding.
Yup, 100% agree with you. It's very telling.
Idk what the old guy was expecting when all of these cops are on edge. Obviously he didn't deserve to be injured in that way but that push and fall was kinda flukey. Not defending the cop because he definitely could have handled that situation better, but jesus help the guy up after you push him down. Dude is bleeding from his head... Hard to defend that.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:18 am to IAmNERD
agree that the supervisor needs to be suspended also for failure to render aid
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:19 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
No, I'm asking you to consider the 2nd and 3rd orders of your original point before you start accusing other people of ideological stances
Which are what, specifically?
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:19 am to wildtigercat93
i guess that's the only video then. that's all i've ever seen. yes, that part of the block looks clear.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:20 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
Their official report and their official statement from the office about the riots that day before the video came out stated that the man tripped and fell.
That's technically correct. He was pushed, and he only tripped and fell because he was old.
If I was pushed like that, I would have just been that...pushed. But the old man was pushed then tripped and fell.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:22 am to baldona
quote:No, technically is where the rubber hits the road...he was pushed. Technically.
That's technically correct.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:23 am to baldona
quote:
That's technically correct. He was pushed, and he only tripped and fell because he was old.
If I was pushed like that, I would have just been that...pushed. But the old man was pushed then tripped and fell.
Holy shite you can’t be a real person
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:26 am to Trevaylin
quote:
agree that the supervisor needs to be suspended also for failure to render aid
I don't think this was the case. The police there were basically forming or holding a line. You can't let the line break in that instance. They call for EMT almost immediately, their job on the front was to hold the line. Whoever was behind the front line was to most likely treat an injury.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:27 am to baldona
quote:
That's technically correct. He was pushed, and he only tripped and fell because he was old.
If I was pushed like that, I would have just been that...pushed. But the old man was pushed then tripped and fell.
The law says we cannot discriminate based on age.
He received the less than the same level of "treatment" as if he had been a 28 year old individual standing in front of a moving police disbursement line, and for that reason the police have broken the law.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:30 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
Holy shite you can’t be a real person
Obviously that was sarcasm. But its also the truth. If the police left off the part about being pushed, they were wrong there.
But saying he tripped and fell, is factually correct.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:30 am to baldona
quote:
Obviously that was sarcasm. But its also the truth.
No it’s not. Stop being a retard.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:31 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
Sounds like a good reason not to have riot police
OTOH, a great reason to have them is "there have been riots going on". That's why they are there. Stay out of their way. The chaos isn't always controlled.
That is no place for an old man. Period. Lots of physicality has been going on. That was hardly a malicious shove to the ground- yet the guy flew backwards like The Fall Guy.
Please go home, Unc.
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