- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: 75 year old man pushed to the ground by police
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:34 am to baldona
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:34 am to baldona
quote:but you're not an obviously elder man, so that's pretty ridiculous to say
If I was pushed like that, I would have just been that...pushed. But the old man was pushed then tripped and fell.
it's true that cops should be taking the temperature of the room, but all the responsibility seems to be on them and only them to do that. the people in the streets need to take the temperature of a line of marching cops too.
this past week has all been about zero personal accountability. it's annoying.
right after the shove, there's an out of control protester doing the "peaceful act" to get a confrontation and a reaction out of the cops. he's trying get arrested and make a scene. you can't just expect the cops to know who's looking to start shite and who's not.
2
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:37 am to Logician
quote:
it's true that cops should be taking the temperature of the room, but all the responsibility seems to be on them and only them to do that. the people in the streets need to take the temperature of a line of marching cops too.
What a bunch of nonsense. Isn't their whole mantra "to protect and serve"? Aren't we supposed to hold them in high regard? Why is this in any way excusable to you? You think we should put the onus on every day people like this old man to just expect a cop to be a complete fricking dick and avoid interacting with them in any way? What a pathetically low standard you're setting for these people ostensibly charged with protecting and serving the public on our dime.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:40 am to upgrayedd
quote:
Which are what, specifically?
For example, you said what the cop did is standard for risk assessment, correct?
You said that riot gear can change a person's mindset, and thus the reasonable expectation of those interacting with police in riot gear is that they should expect, absent of any actual interaction, that their bodies are at risk by virtue of the fact that the cops are prepared for one situation in particular?
Then as a part of a larger risk management strategy, which attempts to mitigate potential consequences, did it work?
If the way the police handled this is systemic, as in literally part of a system used to help police accurately assess risk, then what is the point at which we can judge the system in a meaningful way?
This post was edited on 6/5/20 at 11:40 am
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:42 am to lsu2006
quote:
military grade riot gear
Sigh. Yeah, wearing a helmet and pads is a horrible idea when people are throwing molotov cocktails, rocks and bricks.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:43 am to Logician
quote:
but you're not an obviously elder man, so that's pretty ridiculous to say
An "elderly" old man? That looked like a motorcycle helmet. An elderly old man can still shoot a gun, throw a molotov cocktail, throw a brick, etc.
The elderly old man still walked into a police riot line looking to be a pain the arse.
If the elderly old man was standing still and the police walked up to him, I'd have an issue. The elderly old man walked up to the police asking for shite. He couldn't even take a single push. He had absolutely no business being there.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:48 am to lsu2006
calm down
i would expect in a time of peace, no riots going on, and a large group of cops not in riot gear to never ever react that way to someone approaching them on the street.
i can see a nuanced difference in this particular situation. they're either going to or coming from a potentially dangerous encounter. if you're assuming all the protesters are peaceful, that's laughable. you can't know who's good and who's bad when they're walking up to you.
my assertion is that it's about 80% the cop's fault, and 20% the old man's.
i would expect in a time of peace, no riots going on, and a large group of cops not in riot gear to never ever react that way to someone approaching them on the street.
i can see a nuanced difference in this particular situation. they're either going to or coming from a potentially dangerous encounter. if you're assuming all the protesters are peaceful, that's laughable. you can't know who's good and who's bad when they're walking up to you.
my assertion is that it's about 80% the cop's fault, and 20% the old man's.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:49 am to baldona
quote:
If the elderly old man was standing still and the police walked up to him, I'd have an issue. The elderly old man walked up to the police asking for shite.
He was returning them a helmet that they lost. If that’s asking for shite then it should be easy to admit there’s a problem with our police and how they “protect and serve” these days
And the man was 75. You can stop putting elderly in quotes
This post was edited on 6/5/20 at 11:50 am
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:54 am to baldona
quote:yea 75 is pretty old to me
An "elderly" old man?
quote:don't know. some here saying he was returning a riot helmet to the cops. no one knows.
That looked like a motorcycle helmet.
quote:absolutely, see my above post. can't know his intentions. have to be safe.
An elderly old man can still shoot a gun, throw a molotov cocktail, throw a brick, etc.
quote:maybe, don't know what his intent was
The elderly old man still walked into a police riot line looking to be a pain the arse.
quote:agree, and for the riot apologists, that's what it sounds like happened
If the elderly old man was standing still and the police walked up to him, I'd have an issue.
quote:still don't know that
The elderly old man walked up to the police asking for shite.
quote:being able to take a shove is not a prerequisite for showing up, but no, he should not have approached the line of cops. he's not special.
He couldn't even take a single push. He had absolutely no business being there.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:55 am to Logician
quote:
calm down
quote:
they're either going to or coming from a potentially dangerous encounter. if you're assuming all the protesters are peaceful, that's laughable. you can't know who's good and who's bad when they're walking up to you.
Dude they're in full riot gear and a clearly old man is walking up to them with a helmet in one hand and a phone in the other. If they can't see that there is clearly no serious threat to their life and limb and can't just calmly deal with him, given their major advantages in numbers and means to use force, and their reaction is to just shove him out of the way (and leaving him there) they are fricking terrible at being cops.
quote:
my assertion is that it's about 80% the cop's fault, and 20% the old man's.
Again, a laughably low standard you're hold these cops to. It's 100% on them.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 11:57 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
If the way the police handled this is systemic, as in literally part of a system used to help police accurately assess risk, then what is the point at which we can judge the system in a meaningful way?
The justification/morality of how those cops act have no bearing on my assessment of the potential of them getting aggressive with me on June 4, 2020. That's all I'm looking at in this scenario. Tensions are high across the country and the replaying of those images 24/7 can get into the mindset of both sides and cloud judgement/ability to assess situations clearly. In other words, I currently don't trust them to accurately assess the situation so I'm not putting myself in a situation where they could misinterpret my intentions.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 12:07 pm to lsu2006
quote:would you walk up to them to return their helmet?
Again, a laughably low standard you're hold these cops to. It's 100% on them.
if your answer is anything other than "yes", then your answer shouldn't still be 100%.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 12:09 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
That's all I'm looking at in this scenario.
And I'm saying that if this is a standard part of their risk assessment strategy, the consequences and their subsequent effects are going to result in blowback that has no precedence in US history.
There isn't any idealism in suggesting that.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 12:14 pm to Logician
quote:
If the elderly old man was standing still and the police walked up to him, I'd have an issue.
agree, and for the riot apologists, that's what it sounds like happened
quote:
The elderly old man walked up to the police asking for shite.
still don't know that
Frick that man. Part of our issue here, a major part but not a majority part, is holding fricking idiots accountable. DON'T FIGHT THE POLICE.
If police are walking forward in a riot line, DON'T WALK TOWARD THEM.
Its really not that hard.
Police are citizens also, they are looking out for their safety also. They want to return to their families tonight also. If you are walking toward them in a riot line, I have 0 sympathy for what happens next.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 12:23 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:Well, I'm not addressing their risk assessment beyond what happens to humans during high stress situations.
And I'm saying that if this is a standard part of their risk assessment strategy, the consequences and their subsequent effects are going to result in blowback that has no precedence in US history.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 12:33 pm to baldona
quote:
Frick that man. Part of our issue here, a major part but not a majority part, is holding fricking idiots accountable. DON'T FIGHT THE POLICE.
Where did he fight the police?
When did we all become slaves to the police?
Posted on 6/5/20 at 12:35 pm to musick
LOL you should post that on PT and see what happens
Posted on 6/5/20 at 12:35 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Well, I'm not addressing their risk assessment beyond what happens to humans during high stress situations.
Sure, and we were talking past one another, as I fail to see the soundness of an assessment algorithm without its context in a broader strategy. If it doesn't mitigate potential serious consequences, as it hasn't here, then why would anyone use it? Hence why I resisted the notion that seeing the 2nd and 3rd order effects was idealist or ideological at all.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 12:42 pm to Salmon
quote:
dude, you have been ALL IN about sweeping generalization concerning the protests all week spare us the lecture
touché. That’s true. Forgive my bias.
I can’t help but tend to favor the group that is able to hold down a job, pay their taxes, raise their children, and aren’t actively causing anarchy across the country. My bad.
This post was edited on 6/5/20 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 6/5/20 at 12:42 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Sure, and we were talking past one another, as I fail to see the soundness of an assessment algorithm without its context in a broader strategy. If it doesn't mitigate potential serious consequences, as it hasn't here, then why would anyone use it? Hence why I resisted the notion that seeing the 2nd and 3rd order effects was idealist or ideological at all.
I'm merely focusing on this situation and not the 6 inches beyond it. I'm not tying this into what it says about the system at large. I've been pretty clear about this all along. I'm not sure why that's not registering.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 12:49 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
When did we all become slaves to the police?
I'm in my late 40's and it's pretty much been this way my whole life. It's a bit more amplified now maybe, but there has always been a reverence and benefit of the doubt given to police. It's the primary reason they've been able to amass so much power over city governments.
Page 10 of 11
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News