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Message
re: *’s sign stealing - by the numbers
Posted on 1/29/20 at 12:23 pm to BenDover
Posted on 1/29/20 at 12:23 pm to BenDover
I think it's all very interesting. I like somebody looking at the numbers of it.
Gonna be impossible to make it an exact science, but I do think the Astros results clearly showed that it hindered them more as a team than it helped, and they likely figured that out on their own.
As far as the continued attempts at knowing pitches/ stealing signs is concerned, I was listening to MLBN this morning, and they quoted Ron Gardenhire.
He was asked how should MLB police the sign stealing. His response was to eliminate garbage cans.
The implied meaning was you're not going to stop it, for those that don't possess the ability to read b/w the lines.
Gonna be impossible to make it an exact science, but I do think the Astros results clearly showed that it hindered them more as a team than it helped, and they likely figured that out on their own.
As far as the continued attempts at knowing pitches/ stealing signs is concerned, I was listening to MLBN this morning, and they quoted Ron Gardenhire.
He was asked how should MLB police the sign stealing. His response was to eliminate garbage cans.
The implied meaning was you're not going to stop it, for those that don't possess the ability to read b/w the lines.
0
Posted on 1/29/20 at 12:23 pm to TH03
I think it’s obvious that the cheating happened and was likely beyond the scale of anything anyone else was doing. So they should be punished for that and I agree. The point I disagree on is that they should be stripped of the title and they didn’t earn it legitimately. They appear to actually have made themselves worse with this system than better and eventually stopped doing it because they concluded it was ineffective (not because it was the right thing to do ironically). They were the best team top to bottom in baseball that year and split the road games in the World Series. They apparently didn’t do it in 2018 and 2019 and still made it to the ALCS and game 7 of the WS. I have no idea what will happen this year. Every team could come out super motivated to beat them or they could have a huge chip on their shoulder wanting to prove they’re a legitimate great team...will be fascinating to watch.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 12:27 pm to Big L
Yeah, that pretty much sums up my feelings too.
It would definitely be bad timing for any Astro to have a career worst year.
I think we'll see a team glad to be on the field playing, instead of off it and talking about it.
It would definitely be bad timing for any Astro to have a career worst year.
I think we'll see a team glad to be on the field playing, instead of off it and talking about it.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 12:31 pm to Eat Your Crow
quote:
No surprise that Marwin needed the most help.
But he still had numbers on par with his Astros years after joining the Twins. Are they in on this too?
Posted on 1/29/20 at 12:36 pm to McCaigBro69
Don't. Give A. frick. 
Posted on 1/29/20 at 12:43 pm to Horsemeat
The biggest hit of his career and the Astros WS Championship was on the road
I figure decades from now when retired players actually open up about this, you will find that the best pitchers were combatting this with good catchers.
Changing signs from batter to batter. Never using same signs to same batter in consecutive ABs, etc.
I remember how big a deal McCann made about signs, mound visits, and when discussing it after the WS Game 7 with the MLBN crew, he even implied about knowing the extent of sign stealing in the league.
I can't remember where McCann last played before Houston.
I figure decades from now when retired players actually open up about this, you will find that the best pitchers were combatting this with good catchers.
Changing signs from batter to batter. Never using same signs to same batter in consecutive ABs, etc.
I remember how big a deal McCann made about signs, mound visits, and when discussing it after the WS Game 7 with the MLBN crew, he even implied about knowing the extent of sign stealing in the league.
I can't remember where McCann last played before Houston.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 12:46 pm to okietiger
quote:
This reminds me a lot of Bountygate.
This is actual cheating, though.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 12:47 pm to wahoocs
I just want to know what the frick Tony Kemp did to his teammates.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 12:50 pm to wahoocs
quote:
Changing signs from batter to batter.
Jomboy did a video of the ALCS where the Yanks were doing exactly this - also manipulating what the location would be with fake thumbs up to show high, setting up high then the pitch would be low and away, etc.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 1:27 pm to Adam Banks
quote:
Beltran implemented it from his systems with previous clubs. Clubs like the 2016 Yankees which he was an all star at the age of 39 and had an OPS>.900 at home
Then who was he traded to? OH YEA THE RANGERS
Posted on 1/29/20 at 1:30 pm to castorinho
quote:
I want to see the Astros home/road splits that year
They scored 106 more runs on the road that year with higher average, Homers and OPS on the road as well.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 1:34 pm to PrimeTime Money
Article from October, 2017
Why does a team cheat? One would assume the object is to win the game. Uh oh.
quote:
As the American League Championship Series shifts from Houston to the Bronx, the Astros will be defending their reputation this season as the league leader in away games.
The 2017 Astros boasted a 53-28 record in road games, which tied for first in the Majors. In fact, their road winning percentage of .654 eclipses their percentage of games won at Minute Maid Park, which is .593.
In the 81 games played outside of Houston, the Astros scored 501 runs, which is also best in the Majors this season.
In fact, the Astros were first or tied for the No. 1 rank on the road in home runs at 123, RBI at 472, and batting percentage at .284.
Why does a team cheat? One would assume the object is to win the game. Uh oh.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 1:36 pm to Rabbs and QStick
quote:based on the nature of baseball and the different ballparks, that doesn't tell us anything. Which is why I continued
They scored 106 more runs on the road that year with higher average, Homers and OPS on the road as well.
quote:
and how it compares to home/road splits for previous years.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 1:43 pm to okietiger
Honestly wonder how many teams are doing this. I’d say there’s a zero percent chance others aren’t.
This reminds me a lot of Bountygate.
Let me guess. Houston/LSU/Saints fan? Weird you would think this
Posted on 1/29/20 at 1:49 pm to McCaigBro69
For the 1,000th time, if it helped so much why was the road BA better than the home BA? From
CPMs mouth:
Bregman 2017:
Home: .278, 9 HR A
way: .290, 10 HR
CPMs mouth:
Bregman 2017:
Home: .278, 9 HR A
way: .290, 10 HR
Posted on 1/29/20 at 1:55 pm to castorinho
quote:
based on the nature of baseball and the different ballparks, that doesn't tell us anything
Minute Maid is pretty neutral/leans offense most years I believe as far as park factors
At least since they removed the hill and made CF normal which 17 was the first year. Before that may have favored pitching more
This post was edited on 1/29/20 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 1/29/20 at 1:59 pm to High C
quote:
The team as a whole performed much better on the road in 2017. Each and every time it is pointed out, this is all you get from the outraged:
Well it’s not really a great counter-point to the blatant cheating, so I don’t know if you’d really want a response to that “boom” you think you have
Posted on 1/29/20 at 2:42 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
Well it’s not really a great counter-point to the blatant cheating
Only if the end result is not the point.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 2:46 pm to McCaigBro69
quote:
On August 4th, the game with the most trash can bangs, the Astros scored 16 earned runs. Mike Bolsinger, a Blue Jays reliever, allowed 4 earned runs in 0.1 IP. He never pitched in the big leagues again.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 2:47 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Another thing to note is that no bang meant fastball.
Not necessarily. There is no way that 85% of the pitches were fastballs
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