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re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
Posted on 12/21/19 at 9:45 am to TrueTiger
Posted on 12/21/19 at 9:45 am to TrueTiger
quote:
John Deere would have made them obsolete.
Right.
If I'm one of the 2% that's been in many cases abusing, killing and torturing my slaves I'm not releasing a single one of a million slightly pissed off people into freedom. Are you?
1
Posted on 12/21/19 at 9:47 am to Strannix
quote:
Didn’t suggest that but on the whole communism was the greater threat.
Only because Communism survived the war
Aggressive Fascism isn’t great either.
Any totalitarian government is bad.
This post was edited on 12/21/19 at 9:48 am
Posted on 12/21/19 at 9:51 am to SammyTiger
quote:
People say this but we still love cheap labor.
My point is - slaves weren't all that cheap, even in the 1850s.
quote:
Using slaves for agriculture would have not been profitable after a while but factories?
We're not talking about getting illegal immigrants to come work for pennies on the dollar. We're talking about supporting an entire community, of whom, maybe 60% are working. And not just while you have them on duty - 24/7/365. You had to provide (however rudimentary) medical and dental care, food, clothing, shelter, the whole megillah, for your entire slave population. Now, a lot of these small holdings, they didn't have that with 3 to 5 slaves. But, the larger holdings had to have a significant portion of the slave labor dedicated to maintaining the slave labor.
quote:
And I guess my point is that SOME KIND of abolitionist movement would have had to happen.
Certainly, but it didn't have to be a violent one. Slavery could have been ended (IMHO) in a more slow motion, methodical way. It would have been little solace to those who would have endured slavery for potentially decades later, but it would have been better for the nation if the transition had been handled that way, with periods of time for transition and adjustment.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 10:13 am to goatmilker
quote:
I'm not releasing a single one of a million slightly pissed off people into freedom. Are you?
not into my back yard, no
they would have to be deported
Posted on 12/21/19 at 10:13 am to AggieHank86
The Second Great Awakening should be the answer. It formed the spiritual and philosophical basis for the concept of the Social Gospel, which itself was one of the largest motivations behind the Progressive movement of the late 19th and early 20th century. And it is with this movement where we see the imposition of the income tax, the creation of the Federal Reserve, the direct election of Senators and the idea of public health. The Second Great Awakening is the disease that slowly killed the Republic.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 10:13 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
We're not talking about getting illegal immigrants to come work for pennies on the dollar. We're talking about supporting an entire community, of whom, maybe 60% are working. And not just while you have them on duty - 24/7/365. You had to provide (however rudimentary) medical and dental care, food, clothing, shelter, the whole megillah, for your entire slave population. Now, a lot of these small holdings, they didn't have that with 3 to 5 slaves. But, the larger holdings had to have a significant portion of the slave labor dedicated to maintaining the slave labor.
You still pay for all that with non-slave labor
And probably a little more.
Slave labor is cheaper if you’re efficient. It’s morally wrong.
How long are you going to keep your employees around if you’re not paying them enough to eat?
This post was edited on 12/21/19 at 10:19 am
Posted on 12/21/19 at 10:17 am to AggieHank86
quote:
there would have been no Abolitionist movement
Oh yeah how awful we had people trying to end slavery
Posted on 12/21/19 at 10:20 am to AggieHank86
The welfare state was an outgrowth of giving the vote to women. The Civil War is over. The women's vote is still destroying the country.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 10:23 am to AggieHank86
The dismantling of the US Constitution by the democrat party and ultimately the destruction of the United States.
All of the kids and grand kids they claim to be trying to help, and all they are doing is giving them a dangerous and uncertain future.
Way to go Dems. The thirst for money and power have ruined your integrity and sense of good.
This will be the worst historical disaster for our country.
All of the kids and grand kids they claim to be trying to help, and all they are doing is giving them a dangerous and uncertain future.
Way to go Dems. The thirst for money and power have ruined your integrity and sense of good.
This will be the worst historical disaster for our country.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 10:57 am to AggieHank86
quote:
or Second Great Awakening
Damn hoss, try to read up on history some time
quote:
the disaster of the 18th Amendment and the legacy of organized crime left in its wake.
Ever heard of 5 points in Manhattan? Boss Tweed? 5 points had the highest murder rate in the world in the 1790s. Organized crime long had a foothold in our country before the 2nd great awakening. The awakening made us into the US that we are, not into another Russianesque oligarchy
quote:
there would have been no Abolitionist movement
And yet every other nation on the planet had abolitionist movements, without a 2nd great awakening. How the eff did they manage that?
quote:
there would likely have been no War on Drugs, and the legacy of mass incarceration which arose from IT.
So we hang around as a 3rd world country then? Cuz that's what its like in So. & Cen. America with its rampant drug culture
This post was edited on 12/21/19 at 11:02 am
Posted on 12/21/19 at 11:03 am to AggieHank86
This can't be a serious question...
Posted on 12/21/19 at 11:15 am to tarzana
At the end of WW2 in Europe maybe we listen to George Patton. He was right, you know. The Red Army was exhausted their supply lines overextended and they were ripe to get hit.
We strike in a surprise attack, rearming the Wehrmacht who would have fought like tigers to kick the Russians out of Germany , and push those Red bastards as far east as we could.
Let Japan stew, they are beaten anyway, use the nukes we have to destroy massed Red Army tank formations and crush them. Shove them all the way back into Russia and maybe do what Hitler could not do, take Moscow.
They can't mass against us, because one bomb takes out their tank formations. History changes.
We strike in a surprise attack, rearming the Wehrmacht who would have fought like tigers to kick the Russians out of Germany , and push those Red bastards as far east as we could.
Let Japan stew, they are beaten anyway, use the nukes we have to destroy massed Red Army tank formations and crush them. Shove them all the way back into Russia and maybe do what Hitler could not do, take Moscow.
They can't mass against us, because one bomb takes out their tank formations. History changes.
This post was edited on 12/21/19 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 12/21/19 at 12:17 pm to dawgfan24348
quote:Think deeper.quote:Oh yeah how awful we had people trying to end slavery
there would have been no Abolitionist movement
Mechanization had reached a point that the end was near for slavery. It was simply going to be cheaper to use mechanical equipment rather than huge masses of slave labor.
Whether we want to admit this or not, Southerners were rational people. They would’ve made the rational choice.
The problem with the abolition movement is that it forced the issue a few decades sooner than the issue would have resolved itself naturally.
Again, I blame the Second Great Awakening for the abolitionist movement.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 12:56 pm to Crazy Diamond
quote:and more.
The election of Barack Obama.
8 years of the enemy within holding the most powerful position in the nation.
Record numbers on welfare and food stamps.
Arab Spring.
Fast and Furious
Warmonger.
Set race relations back 50 years.
Corruption on a scale never before seen.
Islam allowed to get a foothold in America.
Slowest economic growth in our history.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 12:59 pm to AggieHank86
There is merit in what you say. Slavery had reached the end anyway. But the hotheads forced the issue Lincoln decided to be Big Napoleon, and look at what we got. 600, 000 dead, untold numbers maimed and displaced, not to mention scars that have yet to totally heal .
Posted on 12/21/19 at 1:08 pm to AggieHank86
Again, people always say this but we still use sweat shops.
The reason we ship manufacturing jobs overseas is because they can pay their workers so little, and we artificially prop up wages in the US.
Slave labor is cheaper tha. Paid labor. Just because farms didn’t need man power anymorw doesn’t mean factories didn’t, mines didn’t etc...
Ironically, the north would have likely benefited more from slaves going forward.
The reason we ship manufacturing jobs overseas is because they can pay their workers so little, and we artificially prop up wages in the US.
Slave labor is cheaper tha. Paid labor. Just because farms didn’t need man power anymorw doesn’t mean factories didn’t, mines didn’t etc...
Ironically, the north would have likely benefited more from slaves going forward.
This post was edited on 12/21/19 at 1:09 pm
Posted on 12/21/19 at 4:06 pm to Choupique19
Worst Historical Disaster
The Democrat Party
This
Also, the psuedo intellectual argument that slavery would have just eventually went away peacefully is total fricking bullshite.
It required a civil war because the evil fricking racist Democrats bastards refused to give up their greed machine without major bloodshed
The Democrat Party
This
Also, the psuedo intellectual argument that slavery would have just eventually went away peacefully is total fricking bullshite.
It required a civil war because the evil fricking racist Democrats bastards refused to give up their greed machine without major bloodshed
Posted on 12/21/19 at 6:26 pm to More&Les
The movement to abolish slavery began in the 18th century with the Quakers. It is older than the Second Great Awakening.
the SGA brought Christian churches to every corner of rural America. I guess if you don't like that, you should dislike the SGA.
the SGA brought Christian churches to every corner of rural America. I guess if you don't like that, you should dislike the SGA.
This post was edited on 12/21/19 at 6:27 pm
Posted on 12/21/19 at 6:31 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Only because Communism survived the war
Communism killed tens of millions before the world war II even started. Nice try.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 7:06 pm to zatetic
quote:
Communism killed tens of millions before the world war II even started. Nice try.
The point is Hitler killed millions as well at basically the same pace of not a significantly faster one.
There isn’t a right answer between totalitarian communism and totalitarian Fascism.
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