- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: TPC Plant in Port Neches Explosion: Port Neches, Groves, and parts of Nederland Evacuated
Posted on 11/28/19 at 6:06 am to Crow Pie
Posted on 11/28/19 at 6:06 am to Crow Pie
Probably do have a plan but depends on if it is safe to get in there and check the lines for damage before doing so. If you have broken piping or flanges that have loosened, offloading would make the problems greater. Deluge piping on the spheres needs to be flowing non stop.
1
Posted on 11/28/19 at 7:05 am to Crow Pie
quote:
No doubt the spheres can be high pressure....they surely must have a plan to evacuate/off load the material in the spheres when a situation like this occurs?
Spheres will have relief valves set to depressure the contents either to the atmosphere or a flare based on the maximum design pressure of the sphere. The rate that the relief valves depressure are designed based on the worst case scenario, such as a fire or operational upset. If designed properly, the contents should be relieved. However, the discharge piping may be damaged due to the scale of the fire or the contents could immediately ignite while being discharged.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 7:12 am to Ramblin Wreck
Additionally, the spheres may have sprinkler piping mounted on the outside of the sphere which can be activated to keep them cool during a fire event.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 7:26 am to reverendotis
In Texas the county Judge is like a Parish president. It is an elected position and the judge may not have any legal background.
And don’t let API practices fool you. There are some good and some are very suspect. Some of the practices of API aren’t law and are only recommendations. The standards are written by practicing members, which are oil companies, refinery and plant owners, and those other affiliated companies.
And don’t let API practices fool you. There are some good and some are very suspect. Some of the practices of API aren’t law and are only recommendations. The standards are written by practicing members, which are oil companies, refinery and plant owners, and those other affiliated companies.
This post was edited on 11/28/19 at 7:34 am
Posted on 11/28/19 at 7:46 am to TigerFred
quote:
The standards are written by practicing members, which are oil companies, refinery and plant owners, and those other affiliated companies.
That is true, but those are the experts at designing and operating plant equipment. It is the equivalent to having doctors write medical practices
Posted on 11/28/19 at 7:48 am to TigerFred
Which suspect practices are you referring when it comes to Mechanical Integrity?
Posted on 11/28/19 at 7:56 am to double d
quote:
Deluge piping on the spheres needs to be flowing non stop.
Also
The issue with petroleum fires is that if the product does not flash off at atmospheric pressure and temps, it remains a liquid and will float on water.
Flooding the area with water can allow the spread of fire throughout the entire unit if the drains are already maxed out.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 7:56 am to jimjackandjose
None specific. I have just been involved with too many API committees that have allowed things to go into specs or practices that were less than what it should or could have been because of costs.
Don’t mean to sound too negative. API has many good standards, specs, and practices. I was on replying to the post that referencing the safety aspects because of API.
Don’t mean to sound too negative. API has many good standards, specs, and practices. I was on replying to the post that referencing the safety aspects because of API.
This post was edited on 11/28/19 at 8:00 am
Posted on 11/28/19 at 8:07 am to TigerFred
One of my employees lives close to the plant and has damage to her house from one of the bigger explosions. Cracked rafters, and it looks like the whole house has shifted over a few inches. It's an older house with pier and beam construction.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 8:14 am to TigerFred
Article on PES fire and explosion in June
The fire originated in the refinery's Alky unit which uses HF acid. I'm guessing there was a deadleg or some other spot where the pipe didn't have full flow and the acid corroded the pipe.
quote:
An outdated piece of pipe that had corroded so much its sides were the width of half a credit card led to the catastrophic explosion and fire at the Philadelphia Energy Solutions refinery in June, according to a new report out Wednesday by the Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board.
quote:
he Chemical Safety Board report says the faulty pipe that led to the explosion and fire was installed in 1973 and was grandfathered when new standards were put in place in 1995.
quote:
After explosions in California and Utah, Kulinowski said, the Chemical Safety Board recommended that industry inspect all pipes, not just representative sections. But it does not have the power to demand those inspections. The American Petroleum Institute sets the safety standards for how to process and utilize HF.
The fire originated in the refinery's Alky unit which uses HF acid. I'm guessing there was a deadleg or some other spot where the pipe didn't have full flow and the acid corroded the pipe.
This post was edited on 11/28/19 at 8:15 am
Posted on 11/28/19 at 8:22 am to Crow Pie
quote:
they surely must have a plan to evacuate/off load the material in the spheres when a situation like this occurs?
Lived around here my young life. Never worked one. So understand who is asking the question.
Neches Butane is a pretty old facility that’s changed hands a few times. Evacuating that material has to happen underground to a pipe and outlet a good distance away. Old refinery Baw isn’t driving up there in a truck or several trucks each with a chance to spark or vent fumes?
It is terrible. The plants always looked a good way away to a kids eyes going middle school and port neches elementary across the road.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 9:04 am to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
Evacuating that material has to happen underground to a pipe and outlet a good distance away.
The plant has no power to operate any pumps there. I would imagine the only way to remove the contents manually would be if there were a depressuring system to the flare that could be manually opened. The flare may have been damaged during the explosions. If that is the case, the only way would be for the relief valves to discharge to the atmosphere once their set pressure is reached. Not really any good options other than to continue to keep them cool from deluging them and hope another explosion doesn’t result in the integrity being compromised from flying debris.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 9:32 am to RemyLeBeau
quote:
The issue with petroleum fires is that if the product does not flash off at atmospheric pressure and temps, it remains a liquid and will float on water.
Flooding the area with water can allow the spread of fire throughout the entire unit if the drains are already maxed out.
Sphere tanks are used for components that would be a vapor at room temp and pressure. The tanks are at some positive pressure to condense the vapor into a liquid.
In regards to the pressure discussions, it looks like each sphere has 2 relief valves on top with the exit of them pointed upward. This is common for larger tanks that aren't directly in the operating area, and if sized correctly they should be able to safely relieve the pressure buildup that would be caused by a fire. Unfortunately, that means the contents would be sent into the air.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 10:01 am to RemyLeBeau
It was a material issue in an elbow--much larger amounts of residual elements than what would be allowed by newer ASTM specs, but I believe those REs were not prohibited to the same extent in the original material spec. There's an initial CSB report explaining it.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 12:23 pm to LSUSilverfox
quote:
Your boy must have balls the size of those spheres. frick all that.
Yeah hes a crazy a-hole. Got on with CIMA when we graduated HS and has been fighting O&G fires ever since. Pretty sure most of those guys have a death fetish to a certain degree
Posted on 11/28/19 at 1:31 pm to TigerFred
If you cant really name specifics and are speaking about experiences on committees which you didnt get your way, you have basically invalidated your argument.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 1:37 pm to jimjackandjose
Hahaha trying to get banned?
Posted on 11/28/19 at 2:26 pm to Ramblin Wreck
Pics from this morning at sunrise , non-stop pumpers spraying foam
The police chief just put out a statement confirming that there’s been a lot of progress this morning. Praise the Lord. God is good. Let’s pray it continues.
The police chief just put out a statement confirming that there’s been a lot of progress this morning. Praise the Lord. God is good. Let’s pray it continues.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 3:19 pm to jimjackandjose
You want specifics about general industry practices that aren’t law?
There was no argument. The point was in response to another poster saying how API regulations would prevent a catastrophic event.
There was no argument. The point was in response to another poster saying how API regulations would prevent a catastrophic event.
Posted on 11/28/19 at 3:35 pm to Wait For It...
quote:
and if sized correctly they should be able to safely relieve the pressure buildup that would be caused by a fire. Unfortunately, that means the contents would be sent into the air.
Is that possibility (venting from the spheres) influencing the evacuation order, or is mandatory evacuation probably due to possibility of more and bigger explosions?
Page 7 of 8
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News