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Started By
Message
re: So what exactly is the main argument against universal healthcare
Posted on 11/3/19 at 10:02 am to Mr Perfect
Posted on 11/3/19 at 10:02 am to Mr Perfect
quote:
Mr Dumbfrick
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Posted on 11/3/19 at 10:07 am to Powerman
I’m not saying that our system is all great, and could not do without reform, but capitalistic competition will always be superior over government-controlled anything in terms of quality of product and innovation.
If you passed universal healthcare tomorrow, things would probably be great for the first five to ten years. Then, as with everything the government touches, there will be waste and corruption. They’ll have to cut back a bit on this service, then on that service to make ends meet. Then there will be massive cutbacks. Quality of product and service will go down. Medical innovation will slow as there is no incentive to compete. Then they’ll start evaluating you- are you worth saving? Do you want some pencil-pushing government drone to decide if one of your parents, or even you, get to live?
Eventually, in forty or fifty years, the system will collapse under its own bloated weight.
If you passed universal healthcare tomorrow, things would probably be great for the first five to ten years. Then, as with everything the government touches, there will be waste and corruption. They’ll have to cut back a bit on this service, then on that service to make ends meet. Then there will be massive cutbacks. Quality of product and service will go down. Medical innovation will slow as there is no incentive to compete. Then they’ll start evaluating you- are you worth saving? Do you want some pencil-pushing government drone to decide if one of your parents, or even you, get to live?
Eventually, in forty or fifty years, the system will collapse under its own bloated weight.
This post was edited on 11/3/19 at 10:08 am
Posted on 11/3/19 at 10:12 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:The problem is the government will do as it does now... underpay providers and stick private payers with the difference as providers cost-shite to the deepest pockets.
I'm absolutely for a public option in place of private insurance and thought it should have been offered with the ACA. If it works, it will outgrow insurance companies, and they'll fade out over time. If it sucks, it will be left to those who need it and little will change.
I predict the latter would be the natural course of a public option and, if given the choice between them, the 50ish percent of America on private plans would more often than not stick to the private plan because it would tend to give them better access to care.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 10:14 am to Mr Perfect
quote:Step one: when interviewing for a job, find out what benefits are offered by the employer.
how do you get those premiums dude.
Step two: Select the employer that offers the best benefits package.
Step three: Reap the benefits.
-or-
You can work for a shitty employer who offers you shitty benefits, because you were either too desperate and had to take his offer or you were lazy and took the job without asking any questions. You are then in a shitty predicament where you're paying outrageous premiums, therefore you assume the rest of the country is in the same exact predicament as you. So, you run to Tigerdroppings screaming "REVOLT!"
Posted on 11/3/19 at 10:15 am to Mr Perfect
Not poor. Don’t smoke and no conditions. Company pays for half my costs
Paying about $450 now a month but I tried to max out my yearly HSA in 4 months since I started in August.
When its spread over a year it’ll be $115 per pay period (every two weeks)
ETA: As the poster above me said, the first thing I asked about in every interview when they asked if I had questions was “What do your benefits look like”
Paying about $450 now a month but I tried to max out my yearly HSA in 4 months since I started in August.
When its spread over a year it’ll be $115 per pay period (every two weeks)
ETA: As the poster above me said, the first thing I asked about in every interview when they asked if I had questions was “What do your benefits look like”
This post was edited on 11/3/19 at 10:17 am
Posted on 11/3/19 at 10:26 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
The problem is the government will do as it does now... underpay providers and stick private payers with the difference as providers cost-shite to the deepest pockets.
Then providers won't participate in it, and it will fail.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 10:35 am to Powerman
quote:
Our current system is by far the costliest in the world and it is certainly not the best system.
Go to a hospital in Europe and you will change your mind very quick.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 10:35 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
hen providers won't participate in it, and it will fail.
Lol. Providers won’t be given a choice. Anyone with a brain knows this is where we are headed with UHC. Docs here make 100% more than docs in other countries. In order to get costs in line providers will be first forced to work for less and then it will be mandatory that they work instead of retire or consult, etc. Then you will see our best a brightest students being forced into medicine to compensate for shortfalls in providers. All so fat fricks can keep shoveling shite into their face hole while voting to keep their heart and antidepressant meds “free”.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 10:38 am to Robin Masters
Lol, if they cut doctors pay they quality of care will go down tremendously.
I’m in healthcare and caring for people only goes so far. If they ever cut our pay, I’ll be gone in the blink of an eye. Not doing a high stress job, that has a ton of liability, for the same pay I can drive a mail truck or work in a plant for
I’m in healthcare and caring for people only goes so far. If they ever cut our pay, I’ll be gone in the blink of an eye. Not doing a high stress job, that has a ton of liability, for the same pay I can drive a mail truck or work in a plant for
Posted on 11/3/19 at 10:43 am to stelly1025
quote:
go to a hospital in Europe and it will change yur mind very quick.
Or you can go to a hospital right here in the USA and get the same result in Europe.
...but in an opposite way. Our hospital here in Spokane is very close to the Canadian border and guess who comes here in great numbers to get healthcare?
Posted on 11/3/19 at 10:59 am to Powerman
I'm 51, single-income/no-kids and have never been a hospital patient.
Since I was 19, 32% of my gross income has been taken out annually (28% fed/state and 4% insurance/benefits).
My taxes would jump to at least 50% (or greater, like in Europe) just so I can get "free" insurance.
Yeah, frick that.
Since I was 19, 32% of my gross income has been taken out annually (28% fed/state and 4% insurance/benefits).
My taxes would jump to at least 50% (or greater, like in Europe) just so I can get "free" insurance.
Yeah, frick that.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 11:08 am to Mr Perfect
Nope. Work at the largest company on the planet. When you have that kind of leverage health insurance is actually that low
Edit: my wife also works at the same company. So her portion and my portion are about 40-50 bucks each. That keeps it down
Edit: my wife also works at the same company. So her portion and my portion are about 40-50 bucks each. That keeps it down
This post was edited on 11/3/19 at 11:10 am
Posted on 11/3/19 at 11:11 am to Powerman
Here is the answer.
People from Quebec are driving down to Burlington VT (the Bernie irony) to get hip replacements in weeks instead of several months to a year.
Rich, white, black, middle, working, not-working... no one should support universal healthcare.
People from Quebec are driving down to Burlington VT (the Bernie irony) to get hip replacements in weeks instead of several months to a year.
Rich, white, black, middle, working, not-working... no one should support universal healthcare.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 11:28 am to WaydownSouth
I think Mr Perfect equates low premiums to being on some sort of government assistance. Reality is working for a good company that either has leverage in employee base or is willing to shoulder more cost is what gets you low premiums. Dude needs a better job so this thread can end
Posted on 11/3/19 at 11:31 am to bostitch
quote:
I think Mr Perfect equates low premiums to being on some sort of government assistance. Reality is working for a good company that either has leverage in employee base or is willing to shoulder more cost is what gets you low premiums. Dude needs a better job so this thread can end
He's clueless , he should not even comment.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 11:41 am to Powerman
In talking to doctors, I have become convinced that a centrally funded and administered healthcare plan from the government will be a complete cluster funk.
Never before, in the history of man, has it ever been done in a country with as diverse a gene pool as we have here in the US. The medical conditions that exist here are not quantifiable and they have no idea what it will cost to fully cover the medical needs of a country like ours
Never before, in the history of man, has it ever been done in a country with as diverse a gene pool as we have here in the US. The medical conditions that exist here are not quantifiable and they have no idea what it will cost to fully cover the medical needs of a country like ours
Posted on 11/3/19 at 11:59 am to Powerman
If you like the VA for all, you'll love socialist medicine.
In Canada, the people who aren't sick like their system pretty well. The people who really need medical care say, "Our dogs and cats get better care."
The best of Canada's medical personnel move to America.
A new study by the Fraser Institute has found that Canadian patients waited an average of 20 weeks for medical treatment in 2016 - the longest-recorded wait time since the think tank began ...
LINK
In Canada, the people who aren't sick like their system pretty well. The people who really need medical care say, "Our dogs and cats get better care."
The best of Canada's medical personnel move to America.
A new study by the Fraser Institute has found that Canadian patients waited an average of 20 weeks for medical treatment in 2016 - the longest-recorded wait time since the think tank began ...
LINK
Posted on 11/3/19 at 12:05 pm to Powerman
No, if you want universal healthcare than the onus is on you to prove why its better.
Seeing Universal healthcare for the trainwreck it is does not mean one supports the status quo.
Seeing Universal healthcare for the trainwreck it is does not mean one supports the status quo.
This post was edited on 11/3/19 at 12:06 pm
Posted on 11/3/19 at 12:08 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:Government has many ways to strong arm providers. Already happens with Medicaid.
Then providers won't participate in it, and it will fail.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 12:09 pm to Powerman
Cost and the fact that the government runs nothing properly or efficiently
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