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re: So what exactly is the main argument against universal healthcare
Posted on 11/3/19 at 12:10 pm to LSUFreek
Posted on 11/3/19 at 12:10 pm to LSUFreek
quote:Want to be sick? Do the math on how much that would be at 8% ROI.
Since I was 19, 32% of my gross income has been taken out annually (28% fed/state and 4% insurance/benefits).
1
Posted on 11/3/19 at 12:19 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Want to be sick? Do the math on how much that would be at 8% ROI.
No kidding
One of my problems is I'm always paying a ton of out of state taxes on top of my property taxes in TX.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 12:25 pm to Powerman
quote:Where do you think we can make steep cuts in our health spending?
Powerman
Posted on 11/3/19 at 12:32 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
Providers won’t be given a choice.
Of course they will. The employed ones won't. The private practice guys that have seen this coming for a decade will be fine. Plastics already doesn't take insurance. OMFS often takes cash up front. Derm often won't do anything if it isn't paid for in cash up front. Concierge medicine is booming right now. They are weakening the knees by incintivizing employment, especially in rural areas, but those who take cash will still take cash. Those who take private insurance will figure out their market and decide whether they want to take cash or government money.
quote:
Docs here make 100% more than docs in other countries. In order to get costs in line providers will be first forced to work for less and then it will be mandatory that they work instead of retire or consult, etc.
Physician salary makes up about 8% of healthcare costs. They won't see raises. They may see cuts. But the smart ones won't put up with it and are going to create a secondary cash system for expedition of the shitshow that single payer is going to cause.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 12:36 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Government has many ways to strong arm providers. Already happens with Medicaid.
No doctor is required to take Medicaid.
Several that do do so under rare exception. In a handful of cases, they straight treat them for free our of kindness instead of jumping through the hoops involved.
There are big incentives for taking Medicaid right now- underserved and rural federal health subsidies are getting previously independent docs big paydays. The subsidy will eventually go away and previously independent guys will have to decide what to do when the rug is cut out from under their feet.
Don't know what they'll do. But I know I won't be one of them.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 12:37 pm to Powerman
Medicare spends 10% of its budget on waste and fraud.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 12:42 pm to Powerman
quote:
what exactly is the main argument against universal healthcare
Name a government program with better management and less waste than its private sector counter part.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 2:47 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:Individual practitioners.... true. Large hospitals that want residency programs, reimbursement programs etc.... not so much.
No doctor is required to take Medicaid.
quote:What if they make taking it a condition of licensing?
But I know I won't be one of them.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 3:23 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Individual practitioners.... true. Large hospitals that want residency programs, reimbursement programs etc.... not so much.
But physicians in MSGs that contract with hospitals, or hospital employed physicians themselves aren't paid based on the patient's payer source. They don't care about insurance. The hospital will have decisions to make...staff leaner, reduce physician compensation per wRVU, reduce administrators (the one that won't happen lol)...
quote:
What if they make taking it a condition of licensing?
You just don't schedule those patients. Template 1 medicaid patient per day, so when the Medicaid patient calls and needs an appointment, they get told the next available is 6 months in the future. And, just like they do now, they head to the hospital where someone paid based on wRVU will see them whenever. Hospitals will still be forced to treat the large majority of Medicaid patients. But it won't be a condition of licensing so this is all a moot point.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 3:33 pm to YipSkiddlyDooo
quote:Kinda proving me right with this.
But physicians in MSGs that contract with hospitals, or hospital employed physicians themselves aren't paid based on the patient's payer source. They don't care about insurance.
quote:1/ there will be audits. 2/ there will be
You just don't schedule those patients. Template 1 medicaid patient per day, so when the Medicaid patient calls and needs an appointment, they get told the next available is 6 months in the future.
quote:Was part of Hillarycare. And being actively discussed. It’s coming. Because as you note so few are already taking MEDI. Nothing is more dangerous than thinking “it can’t happen here”. Docs are in the cross hairs, whether they choose to acknowledge it or not.
But it won't be a condition of licensing so this is all a moot point.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 3:42 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
So what exactly is the main argument against universal healthcare
Rationing and delaying and death panels and ever higher cost, and then morons screaming for more taxes to fix the above, which never gets fixed. Soon all your money is going to healthcare and you have to leave the country to get healthcare.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 4:21 pm to IslandBuckeye
quote:
I have worked in hospitals in Oh, NY, NV, and USVI. I have never seen a patient turned away for inability to pay.
Correct. Cause there's this little thing called EMTALA which means we turn NO ONE away if they show up to emergency room in need of health care, including illegals. It's just that they aren't going to get anything extra, just the life-saving remedies. Then it is on them, responsibility lies with the patient, to take care of themselves to prevent &/or treatment their own ailments.
EMTALA
Posted on 11/3/19 at 4:51 pm to Powerman
AtlasMD Is an alternative to a large portion of the healthcare
Issue.I don't understand the logic of inserting government bureaucracy to make healthcare better.Goverments are good at wasting money,and being unaccountable.
Issue.I don't understand the logic of inserting government bureaucracy to make healthcare better.Goverments are good at wasting money,and being unaccountable.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 5:00 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Individual practitioners.... true. Large hospitals that want residency programs, reimbursement programs etc.... not so much.
See above- they're definitely throwing money at FQRHC's in hopes of getting the rural docs of America on to the government teat. But they're not going to be able to dictate what the private man does.
quote:
What if they make taking it a condition of licensing?
I'm pretty confused by this question.
Licensing is state by state. Taking insurance isn't going to be part of licensure. There are plenty of nonpracticing licensed docs. And then they are never going to make the breast augmentation/facelift/derm promise to take Medicaid or any insurance just to obtain a license.
But if that happens, I'll work my arse off to FIRE and be sure frequently vocalize how stupid the board is in every possible public forum.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 5:01 pm to Nguyener
quote:
Name a government program with better management and less waste than its private sector counter part.
LUSfiber vs virtually all ISPs in the state.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 5:29 pm to BeepNode
quote:
LUSfiber vs virtually all ISPs in the state.
Can I ask what's better or cheaper about it?
Comparing to Cox, it looks like they both have promotional $100/m for 1gbps plans. Cox after promotion increases to $120/m, LUS $130/m.
For their top tv and internet plan combined, Cox is $160 then $266 after promotion. LUS is $140-->$240. They're pretty comparable as you go through and pick your packages, assuming that their websites are accurate in their offerings.
So it seems like this is a government option that's comparable and competitive, but from the numbers, it does not appear to blow the major cable company away unless there's something not apparent in the numbers.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 5:36 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:
They're pretty comparable
Posted on 11/3/19 at 5:51 pm to BeepNode
quote:
I'm dumb. I don't know what's great about LUS. Gigabit internet is cheaper about Cox. Their plans are within $20/m of each other before they start charging you extra fees for DVR rentals and the like.
Instead of a casty, can you give some useful information about what makes LUS better than Cox?
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I've never had any problems with any of my cable providers. I never use any of their equipment other than rented cablecards, though. So I don't have much to complain about other than service which seems to be pretty ok everywhere I've lived before.
Posted on 11/3/19 at 5:54 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:
Instead of a casty, can you give some useful information about what makes LUS better than Cox?
Cox is an insufferable company to deal with. Their offering of 1Gbps internet is a reaction to municipal utilities and Google showing the world that it was easy to do. LUS is a breeze to deal with, have very good customer service, and they were pioneers in the local area, if not the entire country.
As far as the actual service, 1Gbps LUS >>> 1Gbps Cox at with upload, latency, and consistency. Cox is Walmart and LUS is Rouse's, IMO. Walmart is cheaper and offers more though, so perhaps it's better to you.
If cheapness at a single point in time is the primary metric by which things are graded on then good luck with that.
This post was edited on 11/3/19 at 6:06 pm
Posted on 11/3/19 at 5:55 pm to Powerman
I wont even get into the over cost of doing a program like that....but will address it from a personal level.
1) Don't confuse healthcare with health insurance.
2) Whether you want to talk about Cadillac plans or whatever the fact remains that millions of Americans have put themselves in a position to receive health insurance through their employer. It is in fact part of your benefit package and you have earned this or negotiated this through your acceptance of a salary and benefit package. In many cases you have put yourself or your spouse has through many years of work or education.
3) Because under Universal health Care insurance everyone would be in a long line for goods and services and those would be limited.
Right now I can get an infection, go to the hospital. Be seen in the ER within a few hours and admitted. I can then have surgery the next day to remove that infection and spend a week in the hospital getting room, food, and antibiotics for $300. I know because I have been in twice since July.
1) Don't confuse healthcare with health insurance.
2) Whether you want to talk about Cadillac plans or whatever the fact remains that millions of Americans have put themselves in a position to receive health insurance through their employer. It is in fact part of your benefit package and you have earned this or negotiated this through your acceptance of a salary and benefit package. In many cases you have put yourself or your spouse has through many years of work or education.
3) Because under Universal health Care insurance everyone would be in a long line for goods and services and those would be limited.
Right now I can get an infection, go to the hospital. Be seen in the ER within a few hours and admitted. I can then have surgery the next day to remove that infection and spend a week in the hospital getting room, food, and antibiotics for $300. I know because I have been in twice since July.
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