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re: What happened to the hole in the ozone layer?
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:06 am to BurningHeart
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:06 am to BurningHeart
quote:
That in itself pushes smaller companies out of the market because they don't have the capital to invest in R&D for new refrigerant relative to the bigger players, and therefore increases costs for the end consumer because there is now less competition, and companies then push their mandated R&D costs back down to the consumer.
I gave a specific industry example of how the utility of a consumer good increased markedly while the price came down precipitously and yet you are talking about higher end-user prices. While we are at it this governmental intrusion also sparked a ton of startups and the kind of VC that would shame some 1st world country's GDP numbers. A literal explosion in multiple sectors that had been stagnant for years. I can't see how my post was pedantic enough to miss that specific example.
If you want to discuss residential A/C list the companies that went under as a result and show the price increase to consumers. Then show the long term projected savings in energy and whether there is more or less choice in the market. Consider the knock-on impact of electrical grids as a result of more efficient cooling units in loss of down-time and cost.
Also, keep in mind my post was a followup from my first post in the thread that simply points out that when judging a measure (in this case governmental) it isn't prudent to simply look at the intended effect but all the serendipitous ones as well. Some plans work well in their intended way but have horrible side effects, I am suggesting that though it is still debatable whether moving away from R22 to R410a had any positive impact on the intended problem it has produced positive impacts for the consumer as a whole. The primary negative has been on consumers with leaking R22 systems since R22 is extremely expensive now. Noted but in my general belief in utilitarianism suggests the move was a really positive one whether or not it had an impact on the ozone layer.
1
Posted on 10/25/19 at 3:38 am to Cosmo
We fixed it, you should read about it it’s actually a pretty impressive story
Posted on 10/25/19 at 4:53 am to Obtuse1
quote:
One case study to consider is the high definition digital TV.
This post might be one of the most intelligent things (dumbed down) that I've read here. It can/should be taken one step further. If you're a middle aged baw who established himself as a money producer you have been able to see and feel the economics of TV technology. Members of GenX have seen the big TV/projector craze of the 80s and then the ground shaking move to digital. SD big screens bottomed out in the late 90s and I know a lot of people who rushed out on Black Fridays to buy such "great deals". As HDTVs became the norm we saw the Avatar effect that pushed 3D TVs for 5 years until TV content producers stopped creating content. Then we have had 4K which had a very quick early adoption to being the standard for quality/reliable name brand. Now the big thing coming is 8K which is one of the cornerstones of the next gaming system generation. Meanwhile in a month you don't have to wait in line for days just to get a $400 big screen HDTV. You can get those doorbuster prices somewhere weekly.
I think the best comparison is also something our generation has had a front row seat to watch. The leaded-unloaded-ethanol laced unloaded-e85-hybrid/electric change over the past 35 years. That whole movement has been almost exclusively steered by the EPA/environmentalists, corn industry lobbying, and liberals with their GD Prius boxcars which oftentimes are billboards for the Bernie crowd. I shake my head at non-ethanol gas now being a boutique product. This despite the fact that ethanol isn't exactly the greatest thing for combustion engines. That means on a macro level the environmental savings are minimal. They are eaten up by the need to replace cars earlier. This creates more pollutants in the supply chain from material gathering to transporting new cars to dealers around the world. As with ozone issues, there's always a drawback to what we humans think is best for the planet. (If you want to hear an amusing discussion of this go lookup George Carlin's segment about it.)
Posted on 10/25/19 at 5:09 am to Obtuse1
Another intelligent post. Obama gave money away like it was a dollar at a titty bar to push clean energy. One only needs to look at the opening dates of many solar/wind companies. We used to see EACH BLADE have its own oversized semi hauling it on an almost weekly basis. I think the treehuggers finally caught on to just how little in totality they helped and it seems that solar farms are now in vogue.
I visited home a few weeks ago and observed orange tape (like police crime scene tape) around a field. It's a small area so if you know the right 2-3 people you know just about everything. That land owner/farmer sold his land to a dollar farm company for 10x what the going rate is for farm land. I suspect there'll be a discussion in 30 years about losing crop growing farm land to solar farming.
In all fairness FWIW, if I was building a new house I'd invest in having solar panels on the roof. In the long term I think on a micro level that it makes good economic sense (especially if your local energy provider purchases your excess power.)
I visited home a few weeks ago and observed orange tape (like police crime scene tape) around a field. It's a small area so if you know the right 2-3 people you know just about everything. That land owner/farmer sold his land to a dollar farm company for 10x what the going rate is for farm land. I suspect there'll be a discussion in 30 years about losing crop growing farm land to solar farming.
In all fairness FWIW, if I was building a new house I'd invest in having solar panels on the roof. In the long term I think on a micro level that it makes good economic sense (especially if your local energy provider purchases your excess power.)
Posted on 10/25/19 at 5:10 am to Cosmo
chemtrails fixed the problem
Posted on 10/25/19 at 6:18 am to Cosmo
Ozone layer? I remember when Acid Rain was all the rage
Posted on 10/25/19 at 8:00 am to Cosmo
Evironmental regulations banned the chemicals causing it.
It began continuously closing.
Same thing with acid rain. Less acid rain causing chemicals etc in the air, less acid rain...unless you are China. It's still bad there.
It began continuously closing.
Same thing with acid rain. Less acid rain causing chemicals etc in the air, less acid rain...unless you are China. It's still bad there.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 8:16 am to YNWA
quote:
I remember when Acid Rain was all the rage
I do too. I also know it was and continues to be a real thing
Posted on 10/25/19 at 8:22 am to Zappas Stache
quote:
Well, because our leaders at the time believed the scientists and banned the man made chemicals causing ozone loss, the hole has slowly been getting smaller. Scientists believe it will be back to pre 1980 levels by 2070.
You forgot to add that they were positive it would never decrease. Because that's all the ozone we had. But ole mother nature stepped in and said, hold my beer.
Just more lies by scientists who like to act like they are grounded in facts.
They arent
But back then, scientists were straight shooters, not some paid off marketing firm like they are now.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 8:24 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:That’s what I always heard, but how much damage could some hairspray cans have really done?
It healed naturally after 10 years of aerosoles being banned.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 8:24 am to Obtuse1
quote:
Sometimes you have to look a little farther than dogma.
That is true. You also have to look inside the numbers at times as well.
quote:
On the whole, most of us benefitted from the switch from R22 to R410a in our A/C units.
Maybe, no one as much as Honeywell, who held the patent on R410A (1991 to whenever the patent expired, still the primary manufacturer,I believe).
Interestingly enough, the people who quantify global warming potential classify R410a as higher than R22. R410A require higher compression, which requires more energy but the need for higher compression fueled the move toward higher SEER units now (better materials and the use of different compression units).
Also an interesting note, some of the things now being used were actually older designs (like scroll compressors) that were never really implemented due to manufacturing and material limitations when they were originally invented.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 8:26 am to Cosmo
Fixed it with the new gas cans
Posted on 10/25/19 at 9:02 am to Cosmo
Yeah it went away so instead of spending all day in the sun wearing just baby oil we now only have to wear spf50 and a long sleeved shirt when we go out on the boat. They said everyone would have some form of skin cancer by age 50 and it turns out it’s only around 75%.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 9:17 am to Cosmo
quote:
Remember in the late 80s/early 90s there was a hole in the ozone that was getting bigger and eventually would let through all UV rays and cause us all to die a horrible death?
Did we patch that baw up?
It is still there. It is over the southern hemisphere. Particularly bad in NZ. We had to lather up in sunscreen anytime we went outside. I forgot one morning and within 15 minutes my face was lobster red. Its no joke down there.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:22 pm to NPComb
quote:
What happened to the hole in the ozone layer?
Same thing as the world's supply of oil running out in the 70's
Ozone in the atmosphere-GOOD
Ozone in the air-Bad
Posted on 10/25/19 at 2:41 pm to mdomingue
Higher SEER units, either as a stand-alone upgrade, or combined with other energy efficiency design elements, are worth every penny.
The home I built in 2014, despite being double in heated and cooled space, still costs a bit less (energy-wise) per month than my old house, that was new construction
in 1999.
I'll reach ROI in about 2-3 years, but it is pretty amazing IMO.
The home I built in 2014, despite being double in heated and cooled space, still costs a bit less (energy-wise) per month than my old house, that was new construction
in 1999.
I'll reach ROI in about 2-3 years, but it is pretty amazing IMO.
Posted on 10/25/19 at 7:30 pm to Zappas Stache
quote:
Reducing man made chemicals was a benefit to the ozone.
LOL, No
quote:
Thanks to unusually warm temperatures high above Antarctica this month, the ozone hole shrank to its smallest size on record, scientists reported Monday.
This is the third time in 40 years that weather systems have caused warm temperatures that limit ozone depletion, according to scientists from NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). Similar weather patterns in the Antarctic stratosphere in September 1988 and 2002 also produced unusually small ozone holes.
“It’s important to recognize that what we’re seeing this year is due to warmer stratospheric temperatures,” said Paul Newman, chief scientist for Earth sciences at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, in a statement. “It’s not a sign that atmospheric ozone is suddenly on a fast track to recovery.”
Posted on 10/25/19 at 7:39 pm to GeeOH
quote:
You forgot to add that they were positive it would never decrease. Because that's all the ozone we had
I do recall hearing this
Posted on 10/25/19 at 7:40 pm to Cosmo
It’s over the South Pole. It’s effects can be felt in the Southern states of AUS, where skin cancer is a huge problem. I also thought it was bullshite until I arrived in Perth a few years ago. A couple of hours in the sun unprotected is like 8-10 hrs in La.
Posted on 11/2/19 at 2:43 pm to Cosmo
What about being taught french in elementary school because it would be the dominant language at the turn of the century?
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