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re: DC VS Marvel
Posted on 7/16/19 at 3:48 pm to iwyLSUiwy
Posted on 7/16/19 at 3:48 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
It depends on if you think everything Marvel does is solid gold. There are plenty of people that think there are no bad movies in the MCU.
Eh, it depends on how you look at it. I don't think we have anyone even here who would argue against their being 2-3 below average films. None of them are poorly made, and only a few have some big comic book level grievances - Iron Man 3 being the main culprit for the Mandarin. Are they "bad" films in relation to Ex Machina or something? Sure. Are they bad films in relation to other comic book movies - No. Judge films based on their merits and their intentions.
The problem is that DC's problematic films - MoS, BvS, SS and Justice League - are not just bad films, they are also insulting comic book movies. WW and Aquaman fit right in with the average MCU films, Aquaman right there with Dr. Strange and Ant-Man as second tier origin films. WW and Black Panther are pretty much neck and neck for problems related to how they were received. So yeah those are better than some.
I have not seen Shazam yet.
1
Posted on 7/16/19 at 4:03 pm to Geauxtiger27
quote:
Does Anyone have an idea what phase 4 of MCU is going to be?
Well, we know there's Black Panther 2, Guardians 3, Thor 4, Captain Marvel 2, and likely Spider-Man 3.
Posted on 7/16/19 at 6:37 pm to Geauxtiger27
quote:
I don't think much stands up to scorese films
Not even Ant Man and the Wasp?
Posted on 7/16/19 at 7:03 pm to Geauxtiger27
DC hasn't been capable of writing a cohesive universe of movies that wasn't animated. To me it comes across as no one at the top with an over-arching vision. They've done better when they haven't tried to make bigger stories.
Marvel's big advantage is that Disney taught them how to write movies and they were adept enough to expand on that to create an entire cinematic universe that spanned over 20 movies that told not only individual stories but a much larger one as well. No other movie series has ever accomplished as much.
I think a difference is that some of those directing DC movies didn't seem to understand the characters and their casting was hit-n-miss. Again, I think the Disney influence helped Marvel avoid this.
Marvel's big advantage is that Disney taught them how to write movies and they were adept enough to expand on that to create an entire cinematic universe that spanned over 20 movies that told not only individual stories but a much larger one as well. No other movie series has ever accomplished as much.
I think a difference is that some of those directing DC movies didn't seem to understand the characters and their casting was hit-n-miss. Again, I think the Disney influence helped Marvel avoid this.
Posted on 7/16/19 at 7:19 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
None of them are poorly made, and only a few have some big comic book level grievances - Iron Man 3 being the main culprit for the Mandarin. Are they "bad" films in relation to Ex Machina or something? Sure. Are they bad films in relation to other comic book movies - No. Judge films based on their merits and their intentions.
I do. Endgame is my favorite comic book movie. Right with you, Iron Man 3 is by far my least favorite. When I compare those two, Iron Man 3 is a bad bad movie. There are what, 22-23 movies? I dont expect every one of them to be great, but im not going to give them a free pass or lower the threshold of what is considered good/bad.
quote:
The problem is that DC's problematic films - MoS, BvS, SS and Justice League - are not just bad films, they are also insulting comic book movies.
How was MoS insulting? To the comic book it was based off of? The movie itself is a good movie. People might not like Snyder and it was different than most, but most still consider that a good movie.
If Man of Steel is insultingly bad and Iron Man 3 is just below average, I dont know what the reasoning could be other than you just really like Marvel over DC.
Posted on 7/16/19 at 7:22 pm to Geauxtiger27
Marvel seems intent on self destruction so we'll see.
Posted on 7/16/19 at 7:49 pm to Bard
quote:
Marvel's big advantage is that Disney taught them how to write movies
The template was set pre-Disney with Favreau’s Iron Man. If Disney has the secret sauce, they need to throw some on the Star Wars franchise.
Posted on 7/16/19 at 7:53 pm to Rep520
quote:
DC has Batman Begins and the Dark Knight, which Marvel can't match.
I can think of a couple of flicks that can compete with Batman Begins, but no, not the Dark Knight.
Considering NO Marvel movie will ever have the tone of the Dark Knight, I don't see it really ever being that way.
I mean, which is a better movie - Guardians of the Galaxy or The Dark Knight?
How do you legit compare them?
Posted on 7/16/19 at 8:40 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
I do. Endgame is my favorite comic book movie. Right with you, Iron Man 3 is by far my least favorite. When I compare those two, Iron Man 3 is a bad bad movie. There are what, 22-23 movies? I dont expect every one of them to be great, but im not going to give them a free pass or lower the threshold of what is considered good/bad.
When I think bad film, I think Suicide Squad. That's by far worse than IM3 and probably as bad as Elektra, Catwoman, Superman 4.
What makes IM3 so "bad?" I'm generally curious. Outside of the lack of "superhero," focus, which was the point, and a semi-lame villain it isn't poorly made.
quote:
How was MoS insulting? To the comic book it was based off of? The movie itself is a good movie. People might not like Snyder and it was different than most, but most still consider that a good movie.
If Man of Steel is insultingly bad and Iron Man 3 is just below average, I dont know what the reasoning could be other than you just really like Marvel over DC.
Don't cop out like that, Superman is still my favorite comic book origin movie of all time. It's so unabashadly silver age, I love it.
Where IM3 tries to do something different with superheroes, MoS whiffs on the idea of Superman almost completely. It's such a poor representation of the character, and of heroism, that it ruined all of the following films until WW. Think about that.
At worst, IM3 is forgettable in terms o the MCU, it had no lasting impact. The DCEU is still recovering from MoS.
This post was edited on 7/16/19 at 8:46 pm
Posted on 7/16/19 at 8:57 pm to Geauxtiger27
DC can’t match the scope of Marvel because they have too many invincible heroes.
Superman, Flash, Green Lantern, and even Wonder Woman are all overpowered. It’s not that they can’t make decent movies with those characters, but the Avengers were all characters with vulnerabilities that kept the plots interesting.
It’s why some (and I) worry about characters like Captain Marvel being overpowered in the MCU.
Superman, Flash, Green Lantern, and even Wonder Woman are all overpowered. It’s not that they can’t make decent movies with those characters, but the Avengers were all characters with vulnerabilities that kept the plots interesting.
It’s why some (and I) worry about characters like Captain Marvel being overpowered in the MCU.
Posted on 7/16/19 at 10:51 pm to Freauxzen
quote:Marvel's weird, because it's actually a series.
At worst, IM3 is forgettable in terms o the MCU, it had no lasting impact. The DCEU is still recovering from MoS.
Iron Man 3 was a bad MOVIE, but it's an important EPISODE. Without it, we don't get the reason why Tony Stark is creating problems in Age of Ultron or Civil War, and we don't get the emotional angle of IW/EG for that character.
Alternately, Ragnarok is a good MOVIE, but poor EPISODE. The Thor that overcame Hela would not break down like he did in EG, even with the stress of IW. Fat Thor is a funny and unexpected twist, but it is out of character to who Odin-Son was becoming.
Man of Steel scores meh on both angles. Despite all the damage and carnage (that bugged Freauxzen and other "bright Superman" fans), Zod made it abundantly clear that he was going to wipe out the Earth. Clark had little choice in fighting, and Zod left him little choice in location. And the world accepted Superman as the guy who saved everyone, so BvS was kinda off-kilter as far as that conflict went. Zod would have killed Batman quickly if he'd tried to save the day, Supes did the best he could. And "damn, he's powerful" just doesn't mesh with a reason for Batman to go after someone. He's after predators of the weak (especially in this movie).
It gets further disjointed in the following movies, as Justice League and Suicide Squad weren't developed nearly as much as they needed to be. JL- we already established in MoS that Superman is needed to protect from the cosmic threats. We don't need a Power Rangers movie to show us that.
SS, the governmental concept of lining up "supers" as a backup plan was solid, but the execution was awful. And Harley Quinn is totally out of place in that concept, she's just a crazy criminal. At least Deadshot has skills, and the witch and fire homie had 'powers'; why take the basket case too? Just cuz she's hot?
Posted on 7/16/19 at 10:55 pm to StringedInstruments
quote:
DC can’t match the scope of Marvel because they have too many invincible heroes.
True. Imagine a justice league with Superman, Wonder Woman, Shazam, Martian Manhunter, Flash, and Green Lantern. What is going to beat that team?
Besides Batman.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 7:40 am to BlackAdam
well you could give Shazam a run for his money i am sure :P
Posted on 7/17/19 at 8:11 am to Geauxtiger27
quote:
Does Anyone have an idea what phase 4 of MCU is going to be?
Supposedly
Black Widow Movie
The Externals
Sang Chi
Doctor Strange 2
Black Panther 2 (hopefully with better CGI)
Guardians 3
Thor 4
and then a lot of rumors about X-Men and Fantastic 4
Posted on 7/17/19 at 9:14 am to BlackAdam
quote:
DC can’t match the scope of Marvel because they have too many invincible heroes.
quote:
True. Imagine a justice league with Superman, Wonder Woman, Shazam, Martian Manhunter, Flash, and Green Lantern. What is going to beat that team?
Besides Batman.
Exactly. It isn't like we haven't had 80 fricking years of Superman comics and almost 60 years of Justice League comics. Suddenly they're "too invincible" to have a meaningful scope?
The Avengers just took down an "invincible" and "inevitable" cosmic foe who had the power to reset all of existence with the snap of his finger. They have the most powerful sorcerer in the universe, a "god" who can go toe to toe with Superman, a monster who can defeat the god, and supposedly the greatest scientific minds on the planet. Oh, and they just added time travel to their toolbox, along with a chick who slices through space battle cruisers like they're made of wet paper. And then there's the new Spider-Man, who can call a kill strike on any location on the planet with a few words to Siri.
But Superman has heat vision and super-speed, so no one can tell a good story with him.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 9:31 am to Fewer Kilometers
Well, tone makes a difference. You go for the bleak and gritty DC mode (MoS, BvS, SS), and mega-powered heroes become horrible beings. Superman saves the planet, but at the cost of a city.
MCU didn't focus on the damage, during battles. We saw things crumble, but we aren't given a civilian's point of view of the apocalypse. DC seemed to want to do that. They backed away some in the more recent films, and things went better.
MCU didn't focus on the damage, during battles. We saw things crumble, but we aren't given a civilian's point of view of the apocalypse. DC seemed to want to do that. They backed away some in the more recent films, and things went better.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 9:40 am to Scoob
quote:
Well, tone makes a difference.
Tone makes all the difference. You can't tell me that Favreau couldn't have made an amazing Green Lantern movie. Or that Gunn couldn't have made a great Legion of Super-Heroes movie. Joe Johnston making Blackhawk instead of Captain America, Russos making a Superman trilogy...
The problem wasn't the characters.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:15 am to skrayper
quote:
Considering NO Marvel movie will ever have the tone of the Dark Knight, I don't see it really ever being that way.
I know Logan isn't an MCU film, but it is a Marvel film. It isn't a crime drama like the Dark Knight, but in terms of a darker, gritty tone, I'd put it in that category. I'm a Wolverine homer, but I also think the quality is comparable to Nolan's first two Batman films.
I'd hope Disney keeps that tone with Wolverine, who's a very popular character. It would give Marvel that type of serious film they've otherwise lacked.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:25 am to Geauxtiger27
DC will always have the better written product and "comic", but the snarkiness of Marvel comes across better in the movies.
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