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Started By
Message
Making big money in finance?
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:28 pm
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:28 pm
I'll start by saying that my main goal right now is to work up to making true, F-you money in finance. However, I don't know how to get there, so I'm looking for advice on the experience I need to acquire and the hard skills I need to develop at work (or outside of it) in order to move my career toward that goal.
A bit on my background: My undergrad isn't in business or economics, so I don't have the traditional academic pedigree, but I nevertheless have a solid analytical and quantitative background. In college, I took calculus 1&2, statistics, and a half dozen programming classes. After undergrad, I got a JD, spent several years in law (not finance related), and then got an MBA (finance concentration). I earned both grad degrees from very good, but not elite, schools (both top 25). I've spent the last year since MBA graduation working full time as a financial analyst and doing some part time legal work as a side hustle.
So what do I do now? I don't mind working pathologically hard - I'm currently working a full time job and a part time job, do 45 minutes of programming self-study most mornings, and do 30-45 minutes of finance self-study most evenings. But finance is such a massive field that it's incredibly easy to flail about and waste hours learning things that won't actually generate a monetary return. Knowing this, I'm looking for advice to make sure that I have a plan to reach my goal and am not simply working hard but stupidly.
Any advice from finance professionals on the proper next steps to groom myself for success would be much appreciated!
A bit on my background: My undergrad isn't in business or economics, so I don't have the traditional academic pedigree, but I nevertheless have a solid analytical and quantitative background. In college, I took calculus 1&2, statistics, and a half dozen programming classes. After undergrad, I got a JD, spent several years in law (not finance related), and then got an MBA (finance concentration). I earned both grad degrees from very good, but not elite, schools (both top 25). I've spent the last year since MBA graduation working full time as a financial analyst and doing some part time legal work as a side hustle.
So what do I do now? I don't mind working pathologically hard - I'm currently working a full time job and a part time job, do 45 minutes of programming self-study most mornings, and do 30-45 minutes of finance self-study most evenings. But finance is such a massive field that it's incredibly easy to flail about and waste hours learning things that won't actually generate a monetary return. Knowing this, I'm looking for advice to make sure that I have a plan to reach my goal and am not simply working hard but stupidly.
Any advice from finance professionals on the proper next steps to groom myself for success would be much appreciated!
21
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:59 pm to businesssock
Why didn’t you go into investment banking after your MBA if you wanted to get on a clear pathway to money while working crazy hours?
Posted on 5/23/19 at 9:15 pm to businesssock
Get an IB job in NYC?
Become CFO of a company?
Become CFO of a company?
Posted on 5/23/19 at 9:17 pm to businesssock
Honestly, the guys I know (two people) who did this did IB for a couple of years, then got high level jobs in a medium sized company and worked their way up to 3rd-5th on the food chain.
Posted on 5/23/19 at 10:13 pm to businesssock
From everything I have read on the internet (take this for what its worth cause i know nothing about high brow finance and work in medicine), I thought the path was top notch undergrad or MBA, then somewhere like goldman sachs to work 100 hour weeks for a few years, then hedge fund type work, then form your own hedge fund, then buy 30 million dollar house in Greenwich. Right?
This post was edited on 5/23/19 at 10:14 pm
Posted on 5/23/19 at 11:02 pm to businesssock
Why limit yourself to finance? The big money at a young age is in tech. Focus on the programming, and work your way into a software engineering role
Posted on 5/23/19 at 11:52 pm to businesssock
You should look into Energy IB opportunities in Houston. Although it sounds like your off track for traditional MBA recruiting, you should reach out to recruiters.
Posted on 5/24/19 at 4:54 am to businesssock
I'm not sure where you're living now but to get into the investment banking field you really need to be in NYC or a major financial hub. I was in finance living in Louisiana and there's just not a ton of higher paying jobs for finance field unless you've been in it for 20+ years. Banking jobs down here just don't pay with the industry here its all about chemical plants/refineries.
This post was edited on 5/24/19 at 4:56 am
Posted on 5/24/19 at 6:07 am to businesssock
That’s tough. How old are you? If under 30 and less than 3 years out of school- try applying as an associate or analyst at an IB. You will have to move somewhere around the globe. Keep your options open to move to NY/ London/ Hong Kong etc.
If you aren’t into moving and making that big change you could go into retail finance. You could become a financial planner at the bank you are with- gather up a large book of clients. Gain their trust over 10 years and then split from the bank to have your own practice after 10 years.
Both will require a lot of work. Just depends on where you are at with family and ability to move. The move inconvenient for you- the more $$ to be made.
I’d recommend working on presentation skills, public speaking, and executive presence. Get a mentor that can help you with these things. You’ve got the boxes checked to look good on paper. The executive presence helps you back it up.
If you aren’t into moving and making that big change you could go into retail finance. You could become a financial planner at the bank you are with- gather up a large book of clients. Gain their trust over 10 years and then split from the bank to have your own practice after 10 years.
Both will require a lot of work. Just depends on where you are at with family and ability to move. The move inconvenient for you- the more $$ to be made.
I’d recommend working on presentation skills, public speaking, and executive presence. Get a mentor that can help you with these things. You’ve got the boxes checked to look good on paper. The executive presence helps you back it up.
Posted on 5/24/19 at 7:28 am to businesssock
Networking. After degrees, it is the single most important trait to success.
Posted on 5/24/19 at 10:00 am to businesssock
quote:
However, I don't know how to get there, so I'm looking for advice on the experience I need to acquire and the hard skills I need to develop at work (or outside of it) in order to move my career toward that goal.
First off your financial modeling skills need to be impeccable, your law degree may come in handy after you move to PE but if you start in IB then you will be an excel jockey, nothing else. If they aren't great i suggest taking classes through WSO (wall street oasis) or other avenues. In general go to the website and spend a bunch of time on the forums reading.
Secondly you need to be in a top 10 major metropolitan area that has a big finance industry. NYC,Boston, SF would be your best options as far as volume of finance work with other large cities such as LA, Dallas, Houston etc. having regional specialties.
Thirdly you need to frame your resume in the best way possible, hopefully your law experience is somewhat related to corporate law or transactions. Your retail banking experience is pretty useless and will even get eye rolls as they tend to look down pretty hard on retail banking. I'll be honest, you missed your big chance to cross over in grad school. You will need to network like crazy and should focus on some boutique firms that are more willing to look at non traditional candidates.
Lastly, you need to understand WHY you want to work in finance. I'll be honest, the fact that you have a law degree, an MBA and now want to work in finance seems like you just keep going after all the things that sound like "cool" jobs and pay well in a vacuum. IB hours suck arse(your current work situation, even doing law stuff on the side is a cake walk compared to some of the sweat shops out there), you will have no life pretty much until you are a VP or a partner, even then its brutal. Also after VP its a sales job. PE is a pay bump and less hours but its competitive as frick. They are only so many spots available for promotion and you have to hope someone leaves or the fund expands to get promoted and thats if you are good enough to get promoted. Then once you are promoted you are tied to the fund for 5 years or so because of your carry and you better hope the fund is successful.
This post was edited on 5/24/19 at 10:04 am
Posted on 5/24/19 at 12:40 pm to businesssock
quote:
I'll start by saying that my main goal right now is to work up to making true, F-you money in finance. However, I don't know how to get there, so I'm looking for advice on the experience I need to acquire and the hard skills I need to develop at work (or outside of it) in order to move my career toward that goal.
A bit on my background: My undergrad isn't in business or economics, so I don't have the traditional academic pedigree, but I nevertheless have a solid analytical and quantitative background. In college, I took calculus 1&2, statistics, and a half dozen programming classes. After undergrad, I got a JD, spent several years in law (not finance related), and then got an MBA (finance concentration). I earned both grad degrees from very good, but not elite, schools (both top 25). I've spent the last year since MBA graduation working full time as a financial analyst and doing some part time legal work as a side hustle.
So what do I do now? I don't mind working pathologically hard - I'm currently working a full time job and a part time job, do 45 minutes of programming self-study most mornings, and do 30-45 minutes of finance self-study most evenings. But finance is such a massive field that it's incredibly easy to flail about and waste hours learning things that won't actually generate a monetary return. Knowing this, I'm looking for advice to make sure that I have a plan to reach my goal and am not simply working hard but stupidly.
Any advice from finance professionals on the proper next steps to groom myself for success would be much appreciated!
In addition to what everyone else has said. A back door into finance could be using your law degree to work at a law firm that either does 1) Corporate M&A/Securities 2) Corporate Bankruptcy OR the legal side of a banks credit department.
At this point it will be a major process of moving every 2 or 3 from job A to job B etc. to finally getting the job you want in finance.
Good luck.
This post was edited on 5/24/19 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 5/26/19 at 10:06 am to businesssock
How much is F you money for you?
The advisors in our firm make mid 6 figures and seem to have very flexible schedules and good work life balance. You could get a series 7 and go that route. Getting that license could also alleviate some of your issues with no experience.
If you are thinking big deals and sitting with 7 figures in your account after a few years almost have to go IB route. Be ready to work your arse off. It sounds like you are grinding it now but the guys I’ve dealt with in IB work 24 hours a day 7 days a week and don’t stop until the deal is closed. Then on to the next one.
The advisors in our firm make mid 6 figures and seem to have very flexible schedules and good work life balance. You could get a series 7 and go that route. Getting that license could also alleviate some of your issues with no experience.
If you are thinking big deals and sitting with 7 figures in your account after a few years almost have to go IB route. Be ready to work your arse off. It sounds like you are grinding it now but the guys I’ve dealt with in IB work 24 hours a day 7 days a week and don’t stop until the deal is closed. Then on to the next one.
Posted on 5/26/19 at 10:33 am to businesssock
My $0.02.
IB is best suited for people to do at a young age or immediately after MBA as a launching pad into private equity. That may get eye rolls, but every single person I know who came from IB now works in PE (that said, I happen to deal with PE a lot, so this could be somewhat self-fulfilling from my perspective).
Remember, at the end of the day, the run of the mill finance and financial modeling becomes a commodity as you progress higher within high finance. Those able to differentiate themselves at higher levels tend to do so on the basis of relationships, salesmanship, structuring expertise and/or origination potential (i.e. rainmaking).
With the JD and MBA, I’d be looking to do something transactional with a large corporate firm (In-House Counsel, Corporate Development, Business Development, Risk/Analytics).
Even with the law degree and MBA, an IB isn’t going to be able to justify starting you any higher than Associate level unless your law background is highly transactional in nature. If you go to NYC or London, your peers will be a bunch of international academic outperformers trying to out-Excel each other with questionable actual business/operational understanding.
I’d skip IB at this point and either go the Corporate route (pay will be lower, but stress will be lower, security will be higher, time for side hustles will be higher), or try to get into PE even at an Associate level and use your past experience to differentiate yourself amongst younger peers. As mentioned, though, PE is not an easy field to get into.
IB is best suited for people to do at a young age or immediately after MBA as a launching pad into private equity. That may get eye rolls, but every single person I know who came from IB now works in PE (that said, I happen to deal with PE a lot, so this could be somewhat self-fulfilling from my perspective).
Remember, at the end of the day, the run of the mill finance and financial modeling becomes a commodity as you progress higher within high finance. Those able to differentiate themselves at higher levels tend to do so on the basis of relationships, salesmanship, structuring expertise and/or origination potential (i.e. rainmaking).
With the JD and MBA, I’d be looking to do something transactional with a large corporate firm (In-House Counsel, Corporate Development, Business Development, Risk/Analytics).
Even with the law degree and MBA, an IB isn’t going to be able to justify starting you any higher than Associate level unless your law background is highly transactional in nature. If you go to NYC or London, your peers will be a bunch of international academic outperformers trying to out-Excel each other with questionable actual business/operational understanding.
I’d skip IB at this point and either go the Corporate route (pay will be lower, but stress will be lower, security will be higher, time for side hustles will be higher), or try to get into PE even at an Associate level and use your past experience to differentiate yourself amongst younger peers. As mentioned, though, PE is not an easy field to get into.
This post was edited on 5/26/19 at 10:48 am
Posted on 5/26/19 at 11:01 am to businesssock
I work in IB
This is a shitty goal. People who come into IB with this intention burn out really quick.
Did you do IB recruiting while you were in school? Where did you intern during your summer? It's going to be really difficult to break into IB with your background so I will need more info.
It's not so much the hours that suck (I average 80-95/week), but it's the fact that I am constantly working and always on call. I don't make any plans anymore because I always end up canceling. All your friends are going to a concert? Dinner? bday party? LOL. Not to mention that whenever I go on vacation, I have my laptop with me and usually work the whole morning every day. O yea, and you'll have international clients who want to schedule conference calls at terrible times.
Weddings. Beach trips. Golf trips. etc. All get put on the backburner. IB is a highly competitive, client-driven, cutthroat industry where generations of kids with dreams of "F-you money" have been crushed and processed out.
quote:
I'll start by saying that my main goal right now is to work up to making true, F-you money in finance.
This is a shitty goal. People who come into IB with this intention burn out really quick.
quote:
A bit on my background: My undergrad isn't in business or economics, so I don't have the traditional academic pedigree, but I nevertheless have a solid analytical and quantitative background. In college, I took calculus 1&2, statistics, and a half dozen programming classes. After undergrad, I got a JD, spent several years in law (not finance related), and then got an MBA (finance concentration). I earned both grad degrees from very good, but not elite, schools (both top 25). I've spent the last year since MBA graduation working full time as a financial analyst and doing some part time legal work as a side hustle.
Did you do IB recruiting while you were in school? Where did you intern during your summer? It's going to be really difficult to break into IB with your background so I will need more info.
quote:
So what do I do now? I don't mind working pathologically hard - I'm currently working a full time job and a part time job, do 45 minutes of programming self-study most mornings, and do 30-45 minutes of finance self-study most evenings.
It's not so much the hours that suck (I average 80-95/week), but it's the fact that I am constantly working and always on call. I don't make any plans anymore because I always end up canceling. All your friends are going to a concert? Dinner? bday party? LOL. Not to mention that whenever I go on vacation, I have my laptop with me and usually work the whole morning every day. O yea, and you'll have international clients who want to schedule conference calls at terrible times.
Weddings. Beach trips. Golf trips. etc. All get put on the backburner. IB is a highly competitive, client-driven, cutthroat industry where generations of kids with dreams of "F-you money" have been crushed and processed out.
Posted on 5/26/19 at 11:09 am to businesssock
Why do you want to make f you money?
Your undergrad wasn’t fulfilling to you. Law wasn’t. Seems like the opportunities your MBA provided aren’t either.
You’ve gotten financial and career advice here, but I’m not sure if it’s the best life advice. Making a ton of money and being rich isn’t necessary for a fulfilling life.
Your undergrad wasn’t fulfilling to you. Law wasn’t. Seems like the opportunities your MBA provided aren’t either.
You’ve gotten financial and career advice here, but I’m not sure if it’s the best life advice. Making a ton of money and being rich isn’t necessary for a fulfilling life.
Posted on 5/26/19 at 7:31 pm to businesssock
I know quite a few people making 500K plus in retail brokerages. Their educations vary from BA's, engineering, finance, a couple of JD's and CPA's. The one common denominator in their success is they are all salespeople. They know how to close the sale and manage their clients' accounts effectively.
This post was edited on 5/26/19 at 9:04 pm
Posted on 5/26/19 at 10:38 pm to businesssock
With your background you need to focus on technology regulations and become and expert at it.
Technology will be more and more regulated and with a JD and MBA, you could capitalize.
Become the expert at what do do when a company has a data breach.
Become the legal expert concerning data storage and security.
Be the trusted counsel when dealing with new operating, accounting and customer service operating platforms.
Learn the accounting language when it come to internal controls and become a speaker at conferences and seminars.
IB is a roll of the dice - you may make it big........Or you can end up with anxiety, panic attacks and burnout. Life is too short for that shite.
Technology will be more and more regulated and with a JD and MBA, you could capitalize.
Become the expert at what do do when a company has a data breach.
Become the legal expert concerning data storage and security.
Be the trusted counsel when dealing with new operating, accounting and customer service operating platforms.
Learn the accounting language when it come to internal controls and become a speaker at conferences and seminars.
IB is a roll of the dice - you may make it big........Or you can end up with anxiety, panic attacks and burnout. Life is too short for that shite.
This post was edited on 5/26/19 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 5/27/19 at 11:14 am to businesssock
solid analytical and quantitative background............you have said enough.
Posted on 5/28/19 at 9:40 pm to businesssock
quote:
I nevertheless have a solid analytical and quantitative background. In college, I took calculus 1&2, statistics, and a half dozen programming classes
That's like saying you are ready for the NBA because you were a solid JV player in HS
Not saying you don't have the aptitude but this doesn't define solid background
This post was edited on 5/28/19 at 9:45 pm
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