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re: Jack Nicklaus Or Tiger Woods?
Posted on 4/17/19 at 8:44 am to slackster
Posted on 4/17/19 at 8:44 am to slackster
The irony of this debate that rarely gets mentioned is that Tiger had jack as motivation, and without jack nicklaus there likely isn’t a Tiger Woods. This is from tigers own admission that he looked at jacks records and set goals to break them all. Jack had already smashed so many records and if I remember correctly he became much more focused on being a course designer and golf ambassador and didn’t put as much into his game in his 40’s. This doesn’t diminish tigers accomplishments..if he wins 4 more he’s the undeniable GOAT in all categories. Right now he’s the GOAT in most, except the most important one.
3
Posted on 4/17/19 at 10:11 am to Big L
quote:
Right now he’s the GOAT in most, except the most important one.
This sentence makes no sense. Why is major championships the most important measure of who was the better golfer?
Posted on 4/17/19 at 11:20 am to LNCHBOX
Tiger has said that it’s the most important record and the one that he thinks defines the best player. And I think that’s fairly universally agreed upon not just in golf but tennis, so it’s not arbitrary
Posted on 4/17/19 at 11:41 am to CU_Tigers4life
This doesn’t really address the core argument here, but the relevant facts have already been laid out by the posters who provided comprehensive data, not solely first and second place finishes in majors.
Anyways, what I find fascinating is Tiger’s current World Golf Ranking. Dustin Johnson is currently first with an average point rating of 10.0014 and Tiger is sixth with a 7.7368.
HOWEVER, since the minimum number of events for the rankings is set at 40 over a 2 year period, any player with fewer than 40 events, will have their rating divided by 40 to calculate the average.
Since Tiger has only played in 26 events, his total is divided by 40, but his true average is actually 11.9027, which is considerably higher than Johnson’s. So if he plays enough events and even performs a little worse than the previous 26, there is a good chance he’ll be number 1 by the end of the season.
Anyways, what I find fascinating is Tiger’s current World Golf Ranking. Dustin Johnson is currently first with an average point rating of 10.0014 and Tiger is sixth with a 7.7368.
HOWEVER, since the minimum number of events for the rankings is set at 40 over a 2 year period, any player with fewer than 40 events, will have their rating divided by 40 to calculate the average.
Since Tiger has only played in 26 events, his total is divided by 40, but his true average is actually 11.9027, which is considerably higher than Johnson’s. So if he plays enough events and even performs a little worse than the previous 26, there is a good chance he’ll be number 1 by the end of the season.
This post was edited on 4/17/19 at 11:42 am
Posted on 4/17/19 at 12:56 pm to Big L
quote:
Tiger has said that it’s the most important record and the one that he thinks defines the best player. And I think that’s fairly universally agreed upon not just in golf but tennis, so it’s not arbitrary
While it's not arbitrary, and I absolutely think Tiger wants to beat it, he's also being respectful of Jack.
If he was retired I think he'd sing a little different tune.
Posted on 4/17/19 at 1:14 pm to slackster
Remember when he said that he was talking king up 1-2 majors a year and it looked like he’d steamroll jacks record. His divorce, injuries, drug addiction, all took him to an 11 year drought that nobody saw coming, including him. I give him better than a 50% chance of beating jacks record, my gut tells me he will do it and then this debate will be over until the next Tiger or jack comes along.
Posted on 4/17/19 at 1:56 pm to CU_Tigers4life
quote:
It's damn close
It's really not. Tiger is simply better. Jack has more majors. Tiger has more wins.
This post was edited on 4/17/19 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 4/17/19 at 1:59 pm to Big L
You make a good point here that I'm going to expand on. Golfers during Nicklaus era was pretty much done one they hit their 40's because the equipment didn't compensate for age and diminishing skills. Also, sports medicine is so much more advanced that older golfers can compete longer...
Here's another one. The was no significant Senior Gold Tour that kept aging golders competitive. In the Nicklaus era, you hit the 40's, stop playing , design courses and do TV if you are a big enough name.
Here's another one. The was no significant Senior Gold Tour that kept aging golders competitive. In the Nicklaus era, you hit the 40's, stop playing , design courses and do TV if you are a big enough name.
Posted on 4/17/19 at 2:06 pm to Big L
quote:15 is close enough to 18 that other factors have to be considered when figuring out which number is better.
Tiger has said that it’s the most important record and the one that he thinks defines the best player. And I think that’s fairly universally agreed upon not just in golf but tennis, so it’s not arbitrary
Dining stating 18 > 15 is ridiculous.
What if Tiger was 15 for 15 in majors and then died? Would 18 > 15 still mean Jack was better?
Tiger has won over 18% of his starts in majors. What was Jack’s win percentage?
Posted on 4/17/19 at 2:07 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
15 is close enough to 18 that other factors have to be considered when figuring out which number is better
Disagree with that but I understand your point. Since Tiger is the only one you can compare to Jack.
This post was edited on 4/17/19 at 2:08 pm
Posted on 4/17/19 at 2:31 pm to CU_Tigers4life
Tiger's win Sunday > Jack in '86.
American golf was down in '86 compared to the period before and after. There was some stout foreign competition in '86 but none of them knew Augusta like Jack.
Tiger's win comes at a time when the talent is absolutely stacked, American and foreign.
Of course I'm reaching to try and pick one. Jack's win was also "one for the ages" and incredible to beat back guys much younger than him.
American golf was down in '86 compared to the period before and after. There was some stout foreign competition in '86 but none of them knew Augusta like Jack.
Tiger's win comes at a time when the talent is absolutely stacked, American and foreign.
Of course I'm reaching to try and pick one. Jack's win was also "one for the ages" and incredible to beat back guys much younger than him.
This post was edited on 4/17/19 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 4/17/19 at 2:40 pm to TejasHorn
I understand the debate but they are very different eras, similar to the GOAT debate in basketball. All you can do is be the best of your era. How would Hogan have played with today's equipment and nutrition advantages?
Posted on 4/17/19 at 2:50 pm to CU_Tigers4life
Saying Jack is better than Tiger is on the same level as saying Bill Russell is better than Michael Jordan. One has more big wins, the other is the most clutch and dominant winner.
This post was edited on 4/17/19 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 4/17/19 at 3:32 pm to litenin
quote:
I understand the debate but they are very different eras, similar to the GOAT debate in basketball. All you can do is be the best of your era. How would Hogan have played with today's equipment and nutrition advantages?
Sure, but that stuff scales up and down. His peers had the same equipment and nutrition.
As I pointed out earlier in this thread, the equipment advances have only made it more difficult to win. The line between elite and everyday pro has never been more blurred. The fact that Tiger won/wins at such a clip in this era is that much more impressive.
Posted on 4/17/19 at 3:49 pm to CU_Tigers4life
quote:
Golfers during Nicklaus era was pretty much done one they hit their 40's because the equipment didn't compensate for age and diminishing skills. Also, sports medicine is so much more advanced that older golfers can compete longer...
So you're saying Tiger's competition is even better than people were already saying? And you think you're making a point for Jack here?
quote:
Here's another one. The was no significant Senior Gold Tour that kept aging golders competitive. In the Nicklaus era, you hit the 40's, stop playing , design courses and do TV if you are a big enough name.
Same question.
Posted on 4/17/19 at 3:55 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
So you're saying Tiger's competition is even better than people were already saying? And you think you're making a point for Jack here?
The argument for Jack begins and ends with 18>15. Once you start putting that in context, it doesn't quite hold water. The more you explain it, the better Tiger looks.
Posted on 4/17/19 at 3:55 pm to CU_Tigers4life
quote:
Jack Nicklaus Or Tiger Woods?
Golden Bear's longevity is simply phenomenal and legendary however, at his peak, Tiger winning a major and dominating the competition was as inevitable as MJ winning an NBA title, Eldrick's the GOAT the most untouchable prime in sports history
Posted on 4/17/19 at 4:48 pm to CU_Tigers4life
Tiger. Easily.
——> He doesn’t get busted by his wife and he DOUBLES Jack’s records.
——> He doesn’t get busted by his wife and he DOUBLES Jack’s records.
This post was edited on 4/17/19 at 4:49 pm
Posted on 4/17/19 at 5:49 pm to litenin
quote:
How would Hogan have played with today's equipment and nutrition advantages?
Better question is how would Hogan play if he never got in the wreck. He still has the greatest season ever of golf, not my claim but by the experts
Posted on 4/17/19 at 9:20 pm to sms151t
Did they "Jack proof" courses the way they tried to "Tiger proof" them? The elite whites didn't want to see Tiger tea bag Jack's records. Tiger is gonna do it anyway. He ends up with 20. He'll win at least one more this year. Hell, he may win a true grand slam. Where's the BO at this year.
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